I've been asked that questions many times and my answer doesn't change.
The air filter inlet temperature is of no significance once that air hits the hot turbo. What is critical is the efficiency of the intercooler. I focus all attention in that area but make sure the air filter is not getting air sucked away from it by providing a path to flow by on its way to the fan.

I'm getting out on thin ice here, but in theory it will give less capacity to start with hot air instead of cold air. The temperature will rice when you compress the air, if the air is hot before compression it will be even hotter after the compression. This will make need for more capacity on the inter-cooler and this will heat the suction air even more. The turbo is also very hot because of exhaust so the air will be heated anyway when it passes through the turbo, but if the air that enters the turbo is cold instead of hot it can't be negative.


Kjell

Totally un-related, I'm sure, but one thing I've noticed on my 965 intercooler, is how cold the throttle body end tank is (post core) and how warm the turbo feed end tank is (pre core)!!!! I never checked this when my B&B (with side to side end tanks) was installed. Pretty cool...no pun intended!

That is true, cold air is never a negative. In the real world though the emphasis is significance.
Based on the design constraints of a typical 930 tail, if your choice is to give cold air to the air filter at the expense of giving cold air to the intercooler I would always vote intercooler. If you can find a way to give to both without taking from either its all good!
What I found with my application was that completely blocking off the air to anything other than the intercooler eleminated heat soak completely, even while stationary at ide. The fan pulled all the air through the intercooler. This is the beauty of a full bay unit as well, they have enough surface area to not overwhelm the engine bay with heat. My small B&B could not do the same. I had to add a cutout for air to blow by the filter in order to feed enough to the fan for engine cooling.
So the answer is really dependant upon your design constraints.

Bryan..

Did you sell that car finally? If so where did it go? If you like/could, PM me with that info or please provide my contact info to the new owner... I'd like to keep tabs on it should he get bored.. or scared of the car?


Thanks,

Paul

Hello

Please, does any one know what is the nominell compressor capacity on the air condition compressor?

Kjell

Yes, I SOLD the car about ten days ago to an automotive dealer from Belgium. I met him at the Pomona Swap meet and he made me a strong offer 15 minutes after first seeing the car. He said that the car might end up in Germany, but was uncertain at this time.

Ahhhhhhhh, too bad for me! The timing was just so off!! I really liked that car, what a sleeper! Are you building something else..buying a later model?

Paul

Oh, sorry to to kinda hijack the thread guys!

intercooler
 

I'm putting together a 3.3 930 with air-water intercooler with EFI. I had an intercooler built by Spearco and it fits nicely to the right of the engine bay. I'm going to route the similar water system but have a ice water tank that I can manually convert over. I'm using the Tech II system with K27/K29 hybrid turbo - it gets rid of all that CIS stuff. With the air-water intercooler, you have to custom make the connection from the turbo to intercooler to trottle body. I also used the stock plenum but bored it out to match bigger intake heads. I think the advantages are better to use this type of intercooler. Lots of turbo Japanese cars use a->w intercoolers. Good luck.

Interesting please add some pictures if you have some and/or link to the products that you will use.

Thanks

Kjell R

I think it's a bit easier to do this on the Jap cars as they are already water-cooled and thus a little simpler to tap the existing cooling system.

I've seen very few with a stand-alone cooling system for the IC, something that is obviously going to have to be used on a 930. Guess at a mini mun there will be a pump and some kind of reservoir and associated plumbing.. seems llike a lot to me.

Curious: I had spoken to a tuner a while back who suggested the use of Nitrous to cool the charge air prior to entering the IC. He spoke of using a metered injector in the IC inlet pipe suggesting that the cool charge would be thoroughly mixed and further cooled upon exit from the IC to the intake.
Any thoughts on this approach

intercoolers
 

There are several ways to cool charged air - CO cooling coils, condenser, and straight radiator. It's not too difficult to route a stand alone system and putting the reservior in the passager side or in the front can help balance out the car. lots of radiators, water pumps, and reservoirs in Summit. Since I don't need a huge intake for air in the rear, I'm just using a aerodynamic wing with a stock 911 decklid. I'll try to get photos soon.

Water/air intercooler is actually pretty good thing if you can do the installation reliably.

It has following advantages:
- Water has much higher temperature coeficient and acts as a buffer. So it heat-soaks much slower than intercooler.
- Heat-exchanger installation doesn't require air-flow.


Drawbacks:
- Long tubing, separate radiator, pumps and water reservoir

Properly installed, it will work as good as any big air/air intercooler installed in the back.

For anyone interested
 

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/product_info.php?cPath=7&products_id=1006&osCsid=b 83a05fdd528ba11e5b36cdaaeb0f0c6
By the way, Turno Performance Center uses a similar system on their 964 supercharged kit.

Well it's done, i did choose the water cooled system and it seams to work very well. The left battery box haved now become a water pump house. I did some aluminium piping on the left side of the car for the water circulation, and the most difficult piping is done with hoses that have a iron spiral in the walls. The expansion wessel and water filling is under the left fender over the battery box and i have to turn the wheels to the right side for filling water. the water pump is an electrick type.

Engine is a 1986 3,3 liter 930 euro version, 300hp, with much larger intercooler capacity, dansk exhaust headers, strait pipes after the turbo, removed smog pump, turbo smart 48mm pro waste gate, manual boost controll. K27 hyflow turbo and the best of course 1973 Martini RSR Racing look.

I now need more hp :) i have ordered new camshafts from drcamshafts.com with sc profile and i do want to go for an new or used efi system with electronic ignition controll. looking for 550 hp. New headstuds is also ordered from pelican parts: Supertec Performance Cylinder Head Stud Kit sold as a complete set, hardware included, 911/911 Turbo/964/993 - 2.4/2.7/3.0/3.2/3.3/3.6L engines

Kjell


i found this on e-bay can theese parts be recomended on my car?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-911-turbo-EFI-kit-930-turbo-965-turbo_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el12 47QQcategoryZ33553QQihZ006QQitemZ8042679546QQrdZ1Q QsspagenameZWD1V#ebayphotohosting




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213996366.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213996384.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213996400.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213996416.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213996426.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213996437.jpg

Kjell, beautiful ride and great job! Props to going forward with the WTA intercooler.

Albert makes great stuff, but only if you are ditching your CIS and going EFI

Beautiful car Kjell, but you might consider a muffler configuration more like the this. It is straight through with no restrictions. RSR style N/A duals.

EDIT - never mind, I see you want the stockish N/A look with the short valance. Very deceptive!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1214021972.jpg

What a stunning looking car, I love it!! If i had water cooling capabilities on my car i would definitely be running Garrett ball bearing turbos. I know they can be made to work without water cooling, but if i had gone to the trouble of installing water cooling for the intercooler i would definitely do the turbos too.
You mention going EFI, have a look at the GT4088R, it's good for 600bhp at 1.2bar with the correct engine work and 3.4ltrs.



Just for posterity, i've collected a couple of pictures of intercooler arrangements of the net, these are all no doubt to try and get rid of the whale tail, we all like pictures right! Bryan's car is the first

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...ntercooler.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...ntercooler.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...oolersetup.jpg

And a pic of a 3.0ltr with no cooler

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...ntercooler.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1214033494.jpg


if i go for a EFI system like this will it be recommended to go with or without dump valve?

kjell