Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11
Does a stock 930 have a rev limiter?

I've got an 86 930 completely stock, I've been autocrossing it and have had it up to 7000 rpm's about twice a run and have still not hit the rev limiter if there is in fact one. I usually run in first gear for the whole run and run between 3000 and 7000 rpm's, will these high rpm ranges damage the motor?
Old 10-22-2007, 07:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
F350Lawman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 295
I have a rev limting rotor in the distributor, I believe they all do. It will cut out around 6800-7000 (according to the tach). I try to avoid hitting it though. It will happen very rarely, maybe a 2nd gear wheel spin or hard uphill 2nd gear pass (once).

If you are running 7K often, you are heading for some BIG repair bills. JMHO
__________________
1987 930 - K27 7200 / DAS Full Cage / Blownsix Intercooler / BB Headers / Zork Tube / Tial 46mm / Adjustable WUR / RPM Activated Solenoid / Open Element Air Intake / Smart Racing 27mm Sways / 24 and 33mm Torsion Bars / Adj. Spring Plates / Wevo Strut Brace / Monoballs / Tow Hooks / Oil Cooler Scoop / Brey Krauss Harness Truss / Race Seats / XD-16 AFR Guage/ 17" Kodiak Racing Whees and Nitto NT-01 255/315s

Last edited by F350Lawman; 10-22-2007 at 10:04 PM..
Old 10-22-2007, 09:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
"I wuz the liquor..."
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,487
I have my crank-fired ECU (Electromotive XDi) rev limiter set to 6,500 RPMs.

Honestly, I'm not sure if the stock dizzy and/or CDI box have a rev limiter. I know that the MSD 6AL CDI box (a common replacement when the Bosch unit goes down) has a rev-limiting feature. Back when my '87 was bone stock, I was accelerating hard from second to third, and before I could make the shift, the crappy OEM rubber centered clutch disc disintegrated, and the tach needle went all the way as the engine lost it's connection to the tranny and just free-revved!

If you intend on seeing regular high RPM exchanges (especially if extended), at a minimum you'll need ARP rod bolts. The stock rod bolts have been commonly called "cheese". On a more track oriented engine (not sure if that applies to Auto X), race valve springs and retainers are a common change.

Obviously, the rod bolts can be changed without having to split the crankcase, but while you've got the engine out and in pieces, terrible urges take over, and you become a human avalanche tumbling down a slippery slope.
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 10-23-2007, 03:08 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
"I wuz the liquor..."
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,487
For the occasional and typical short burst, or the owner manual advised spirited run, you should be fine. What I described above, in my other post, is more of a regular and extended scenario...
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)

Last edited by sand_man; 10-23-2007 at 04:44 AM..
Old 10-23-2007, 03:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
sudo apt-get purge 930
 
equality72521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brandon, FL
Posts: 4,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by F350Lawman View Post
I have a rev limting rotor in the distributor, I believe they all do.JMHO
Don't bet on it though, the rev limiting rotor can easily be replaced with a non rev limiting one.
__________________
Mark 1979 930 Euro ***GONE AND DON'T MISS IT AT ALL***

"Worrying about depreciation on your car and keeping mileage down is like not ****ing your girlfriend so her next boyfriend finds her more appealing"
--clutch-monkey
Old 10-23-2007, 03:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
When changing to an MSD the stock rev limiting rotor has to be replaced with a non limiting one as it can overheat & burn out.

The problem with high rpm is the stock rod bolts as Sandman suggested.

Rev limiting.
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 10-23-2007, 12:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Glorious Pac NW
Posts: 2,795
Quote:
Originally Posted by sand_man View Post
If you intend on seeing regular high RPM exchanges (especially if extended), at a minimum you'll need ARP rod bolts. The stock rod bolts have been commonly called "cheese".

...

Obviously, the rod bolts can be changed without having to split the crankcase, but while you've got the engine out and in pieces, terrible urges take over, and you become a human avalanche tumbling down a slippery slope.
Heh.

+1 on the ARP versus factory rod bolts. sand_man's spot on there.

However, discussion on the engine rebuilding forum indicates that a stretch gauge is vastly preferred over torque or angle measurement methods, for accuracy. And you would have to split the case for that...

Also probably worth noting that the Turbo Carrera owner's handbook has a specific warning:

Quote:
Maximum speed of 6,000 rpm should not be exceeded for normal driving

Increasing engine RPM to 6,700 rpm is only permissable for short periods if needed for quick acceleration
78 and up, the CDI does the rev limiting is my understanding. But the "6800" mechanical limiting rotors can cut off quite high.

I know it's Auto-X and you're trying to save a shift, but 7,000? Power's falling off a cliff on the stock motor by then, surely?
__________________
'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 10-23-2007, 04:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston (Clearlake), TX
Posts: 8,605
Garage
It's been a few years, but I vaguely remember hitting my rev limiter during an autox at about 7200 rpm.
__________________
2014 Cayman S
2011 Cayenne Turbo
1979 930 (475 rwhp at 0.95 bar)
Old 10-23-2007, 04:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
wcc wcc is offline
Registered User
 
wcc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,334
I would say yes that a stock 930 has a rev limiter. It's controlled by the CDI and not by the rotor.
__________________
Bill
Old 10-24-2007, 05:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,223
The CDI cuts out at 7200rpm and when it comes back on large flames come out the exhaust...

...pretty dramatic orange flash of light in the rear view mirror at night.
Old 10-24-2007, 06:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
Woudl it matter how many wires the CDI has or did they all cut?
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 10-25-2007, 01:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,223
Mine has a permatune that was in it when I got the car so I don't know...

I did hit a rev limiter accidentally while accelerating in first once at night as I described and my overboost switch is not hooked up so it wasn't that.
I'm not sure if it was 7000 or 7200rpms where the ignition cut out... it happens too fast.
I've read it is 7200rpm.

I should add, mines and '87 930 and it does not have a rev limiting rotor.

It does have B&B headers and single out muffler, K27 7200, 1 bar spring in origonal wastegate, Garretson halfbay intercooler and Powerhaus group B cams that are probably timed later than I like for a street car and DP935 air dam with large B&B front center oil cooler.
Powerband is 4500rpm to 7200rpm with no let up.

All that was in it when I got it.

I have a new K27 HFS sitting here waiting to go in along with Andial SC330 cams, new rockers, and a Tial copy wastegate.

Last edited by JFairman; 10-25-2007 at 04:21 PM.. Reason: more information
Old 10-25-2007, 03:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Glorious Pac NW
Posts: 2,795
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUK View Post
Woudl it matter how many wires the CDI has or did they all cut?
My 6 pin Bosch came with the '77 S tub. It doesn't cut at all, becaise they expected a rev-limiting rotor in the distributor. Apparently.

My '78 distributor didn't have a rev-limiting rotor - because the '78 CDI boxes do the rev limiter thing. Apparently.

See any potential danger here with a 915 box in stop-go traffic that suddenly clears after two miles of crawling? That rebuild 1,000 miles later cost me as much as it did to buy the car.

I have a rev-limiting rotor now, you can take that to the bank. It cuts off kinda high for my taste - but I'm running ARP rod bolts these days...
__________________
'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 10-25-2007, 03:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
Ddi you break the tranny and the engine all in one go ?
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 10-26-2007, 09:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Glorious Pac NW
Posts: 2,795
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUK View Post
Ddi you break the tranny and the engine all in one go ?
Didn't break the tranny as such, but when it was opened to be refreshed and have an LSD and some WEVO bits fitted, it was found to have pre-existing issues from a long hard life and prior rebuilds (it was likely the original box) and was pretty much a lost cause - especially considering a mag-cased 915 wasn't an ideal choice anyway.

So Mike (MBEngineering) built up an alu-cased 915 he tweaked to suit the application.
__________________
'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 10-26-2007, 06:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
Im guessing you could see the two shafts were trying to get away from each other?
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 10-28-2007, 09:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Glorious Pac NW
Posts: 2,795
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUK View Post
Im guessing you could see the two shafts were trying to get away from each other?
The bearings had been spinning in the intermediate and diff cases, yes. And the holes were elongated apart, yup. But I'm told that, on a mag case 915, the diff cover is also a cause for concern.

So I got a WEVO bearing retainer and a WEVO billet diff cover from our host (who can special-order anything from any of their regular suppliers even if not in the PP catalog, you just need to provide the part #), and Mike Bainbridge opened that puppy up.

There were also no dog teeth(? think that's what they're called) left on 1st, which explained why speed-matching and double-declutching didn't help one jot trying to shift into 1st when moving, and no bits of metal in the case - it probably had happened a long time ago.

Box had been gone through once or twice before, most likely, Mike found some non-factory parts in there... The odo shows 237,000 the car was odo-exempt in WA state and it wasn't working when the PO got the car...

The 5th gearset was an interesting mid-blue colour. Figured that oil slosh under boost on the track probably accounted for that - or maybe it got run out of oil a decade or two ago, who knows?

Given that it was a mag case and that so much of it was distressed, sourced a '86 alu-cased 915 with an oil cooler in need of a fettling and fitted an internal spray bar kit, WEVO bearing retainer, 65/40 LSD and tweaked the ratios (taller 2nd and 5th).

Couldnt' use the WEVO diff cover, because the factory oil pump fits under there, but the late, factory alu cover is much stronger than the early mag case part anyway. It would have been nice to use the WEVO part with the 930 bearing though...
__________________
'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 10-30-2007, 04:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
Sounds good now. Not sure why you wanted a higher 2nd though. 1st to 2nd spacing seems fine in my 3.2 carrera, not sure I would want them further apart.

From what I can see in my '83 915 the side cover seems fine & the opposing shafts would seem to be the problem. My stock retaining plate came loose...
What would be good in that box is if a pump was strong enough to pull any loose dog teeth into a filter and keep them there until the box is rebuilt. I wonder if the swarf from the dog teeth damaged a bearing or two of mine.
Since my rebuild so far so good using the Wevo retainer & K-nuts.
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 10-30-2007, 01:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
A930Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Posts: 7,164
My 87 didn't appear to have a rev limiter any where (dizzy or CDI), but maybe I never took it to 7200? Now that I have my MSD6AL, I have my shift light set at 6000 and the rev limiter set to 6400.
Old 10-30-2007, 02:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chas, SC
Posts: 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcc View Post
I would say yes that a stock 930 has a rev limiter. It's controlled by the CDI and not by the rotor.
According to the wiring diagrams for the 86, there is a speed sensor under the drivers seat, that shuts off the pumps just over 7k.
__________________
Tim
1986 930
Gone:71,2,4 914's, 70T, 71T(RS),77S
Old 03-25-2008, 10:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:52 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.