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Porsche-Poor
 
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Intercooler question

Just installed a B&B short neck IC, still using the 3LDZ turbo until I install a K27-7200. Anyways, on a test run, I'm only able to achieve .6 bar of boost, any thoughts here? I have triple checked the install and very confident all seals are set properly. Also, there are two hoses on the passenger side, the IC only has a connection for the larger hose, what is the smaller one for, looks like there is a valve of some kind also connected to this smaller hose? Thanks, Bryce
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1979 911 RS clone hotrod
1983 930 turbo-sold, will be missed
1992 964 C2 Coupe-regrettably sold
1980 911 SC Weissach-regrettably sold
1975 911S-sold but not forgotten
Old 10-27-2007, 05:59 PM
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First thing... don't trust the boost guage on the tacho hook up an external boost gauge and confirm you are really only getting .6 bar. Was it indicating .8bar before the installation, a .2bar leak is pretty big.

The smaller hose connection goes to the warm up valve, you can probably leave it disconnected.

No 20 in this picture


You might want to ask around about whether the K27-7200 is the right turbo for your plans. I installed one and I didn't like the fact I lost the rush of the turbo coming on at 3k and it didn't produce power all the way to redline like the 3DLZ. I think it needs the right cams to get the most out of it.
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:37 PM
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Thanks for the input Steve, believe that hose is #48B coming off that valve or something
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1979 911 RS clone hotrod
1983 930 turbo-sold, will be missed
1992 964 C2 Coupe-regrettably sold
1980 911 SC Weissach-regrettably sold
1975 911S-sold but not forgotten
Old 10-28-2007, 10:45 AM
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forgot, yes, was reading .8 bar before with stock IC
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1979 911 RS clone hotrod
1983 930 turbo-sold, will be missed
1992 964 C2 Coupe-regrettably sold
1980 911 SC Weissach-regrettably sold
1975 911S-sold but not forgotten
Old 10-28-2007, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcoats View Post
Just installed a B&B short neck IC, still using the 3LDZ turbo until I install a K27-7200. Anyways, on a test run, I'm only able to achieve .6 bar of boost, any thoughts here? I have triple checked the install and very confident all seals are set properly. Also, there are two hoses on the passenger side, the IC only has a connection for the larger hose, what is the smaller one for, looks like there is a valve of some kind also connected to this smaller hose? Thanks, Bryce

Hey Bryce, is there anyway for you to post a picture.

For the record, Bryce is running my old B&B intercooler...recently sold it to him. I should add that my car had ALL of the smog crapola removed, so it's possible that you might still have a connection looking for a home.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 10-28-2007, 03:33 PM
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Didn' the stock I/C have two fittings on the right side? One goes to the AAV and the other is capped off.

#48 in the diagram above.
Old 10-28-2007, 07:04 PM
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I just realised the #20 I mentioned above goes to the air box (I removed mine and a bunch of other stuff when I went EFI)

The valve you describe is the "electric air valve" my 1988 930 didn't have one so I can't help here.
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Old 10-28-2007, 07:43 PM
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Wow...that B&B is making the rounds in the 930 community...thats owner number 4...LOL

Yasin
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Old 10-28-2007, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow&rusty View Post
Wow...that B&B is making the rounds in the 930 community...thats owner number 4...LOL

Yasin

I agree...didn't you buy it from 125shifter? I think owning it has become a right of passage in the 930 community!
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-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 10-28-2007, 08:04 PM
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Hey Bryce, how does your car run other than only being able to boost to .6 bar? Any idle problems? Abnormal backfiring? Difficulty starting? It does sound like you've got a possible boost leak. Are you sure the boost pipe is fully seated down on the turbocharger neck (sometimes hard to see) and that you've got a solid connection where the intercooler fits on the up-pipe and the throttle body (actually the BOV housing)?

One other thing, to be cautious of, is that if you need to do some twisting and turning of the up-pipe to help with fitment, that you don't accidentally cut the O-ring on the intercooler...it's not fun when the O-ring ends up in the neck of the turbo. I once had to fish one out for a friend.

As for the 3LDZ not being efficient enough...I don't know, when I had that intercooler, I used it in conjunction with a K27-7200 and it regularly saw .9 bar on an aftermarket boost gauge.

Anyway, post a picture, I want to see how it looks on your car!
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-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 10-29-2007, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sand_man View Post
I agree...didn't you buy it from 125shifter? I think owning it has become a right of passage in the 930 community!
I sure did! That Intercooler has done more miles that my actual car...LOL!

Yasin
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Old 10-29-2007, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow&rusty View Post
I sure did! That Intercooler has done more miles that my actual car...LOL!

Yasin

So it went from TX to CO to NC to WA! We should start a "where's the B&B intercooler been" and take pictures as it makes its rounds from car to car!

I actually love(d) that intercooler and was planning to keep it for good until I decided that I wasn't going to be running an AC condenser in the tail. With the AC components missing from my car, it just looked odd not trying to fill the space with something larger...hence the 965 intercooler that I've got now.
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-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 10-29-2007, 07:19 AM
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Hey Jeff, appreciate the suggestions, car runs/idles perfect, starts right up. I will check the seals to see if any of them were damaged during installation, will also double check the downpipe to see if it's seated properly. Pictures on the way. Do you notice any changes with your 965 IC in terms of boost and spool up?
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1979 911 RS clone hotrod
1983 930 turbo-sold, will be missed
1992 964 C2 Coupe-regrettably sold
1980 911 SC Weissach-regrettably sold
1975 911S-sold but not forgotten
Old 10-29-2007, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcoats View Post
Hey Jeff, appreciate the suggestions, car runs/idles perfect, starts right up. I will check the seals to see if any of them were damaged during installation, will also double check the downpipe to see if it's seated properly. Pictures on the way. Do you notice any changes with your 965 IC in terms of boost and spool up?
Honestly, it is hard to tell a difference. Maybe a dyno would have revealed the subtleties between the B&B and the factory 965 intercooler, but being that I didn't log any dyno time with the B&B, I have no baseline for comparison. My motivation for going with the 965 intercooler was primarily aesthetics.

I think slow&rusty actually flow-tested the B&B that you now have and he was pretty impressed with it's performance.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 10-29-2007, 08:44 AM
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Spray a little silicone on the o-rings and pipe ends before you re-connect them. They'll slide right on with out damage.

Are you measuring with a mech boost gauge? That gauge in the tach is worthless as mentioned.
Old 10-29-2007, 06:18 PM
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OK, refitted the IC and took out for a nice pull in 3rd and registered .8 bar, seems to be working. I am guessing that because this IC flows a lot more air than stock, not sure this 3LDZ turbo can generate enough boost to compensate for the additional flow?? Just interesting as it does drive differently, spools up at 4K vs. 3K, pulls hard then falls off a cliff at around 5500RPM's. Looking forward to matching this IC with a more modern turbo shortly (I'm getting Sand_man's left overs). Also, any suggestions on what type of mechanical boost gauge I should be looking at?
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1979 911 RS clone hotrod
1983 930 turbo-sold, will be missed
1992 964 C2 Coupe-regrettably sold
1980 911 SC Weissach-regrettably sold
1975 911S-sold but not forgotten
Old 10-29-2007, 09:34 PM
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I see that you are running SC cams, and the "fall off" at about 5,500 RPMs is a typical signature for them. I also think that those cams would be better paired with a K27 over the 3LDZ. The K27-7200 spools sooner and more gradual than the 3LDZ; not much of that "light switch" effect. And being that the SC cams are producing most of their power at the lower end, you want the turbo to also be doing it's thing sooner, too...I think you'd always want sooner spooling anyway!

FWIW, I have SC cams in my engine, and have been pretty happy with them...I'm sure there are better choices, but I just went with what was tried and true for a street engine.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 10-30-2007, 03:43 AM
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good stuff Jeff, good stuff indeed, can't wait to get the K27 on the car and out to the track!
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1979 911 RS clone hotrod
1983 930 turbo-sold, will be missed
1992 964 C2 Coupe-regrettably sold
1980 911 SC Weissach-regrettably sold
1975 911S-sold but not forgotten
Old 10-30-2007, 08:41 AM
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I think the drop-off @ 5500 is likely the 3DLZ - if it is due to the efficiency range of the SC cams, I think dyno results show that you can stretch that out a bit with a decent turbo, least, that's how I'm reading mine...

Meaning you might get results that were better yet, with cams that breathed better @ high RPM, like 964 or the next step up. But that's a slippery slope, next thing you know, you'll be porting the thing...

I have SC cams, 8:1, GHL headers, Kokeln and a K27/HF, with an EVO airbox. Factory muffler.

It feels like it just keeps going to the rev-limiter, although the dyno chart says max power @ 6100, max torque @ 5700. HP is flat, but torque is definately falling off.

My dyno guy says the mechanical VDO reads .5 bar @ 2500 RPM, with enough load, although I prefer to buzz it a little more than that, for the sake of the 915...

With SC cams and 8:1, stock headers, 3DLZ, intercooler, airbox and a loud-ass pipe you could roll a baseball through, it made peak power @ 5680 and peak torque @ 5210. HP looks pretty flat, but torque was diving quite steeply...

Both runs had a separate wastegate pipe with no muffling.

My personal butt-dyno obviously isn't worth a damn. On either configuration, I wouldn't have accurately guessed the optimum shift point as both seemed to rev freely to redline like a demented thing.
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Old 10-30-2007, 10:48 AM
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I would say the SC cams are more low end oriented and the 3DZL runs out of breath. If you want to go high, use 964 cams with a K27-HFS. Better headers are needed as well to make it breath.

Just my .02
Old 10-30-2007, 03:37 PM
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