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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Passenger's Side Muffler Ready For Testing

I received the first production set of the new Muffler/WG combo from Ben yesterday and got it polished up tonight. This weekend we try it out! The muffler has packing material in it to tame that beast a little. I'll take installed pix and report back this weekend.

PS - if anyone out there can help me out with sound/video I'd sure appreciate it. I have no experience getting that stuff on the net and need to buy the right camcorder/equipment.

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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-01-2007, 07:16 PM
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nice...

reminds me of something though...
Old 11-01-2007, 07:27 PM
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Looks good. Maybe it's just the angle of the picture, but it doesn't look like there's much space (pipe) between the turbo flange and the muffler can. I was hoping to get one with an O2 bung welded in place. Again, maybe it's just the angle of the photo...
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 11-01-2007, 08:45 PM
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I'm thinking the O2 bung should go after the muffler anyway so that it doesn't get too hot. After all, when you stick a portable probe up there at the dyno it doesn't go more than a foot up the pipe. I would think dilution from the air at the exit wouldn't be a problem with a pipe that long.
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Andy Glass
'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 11-01-2007, 09:56 PM
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the 02 bungs can be put anywhere you want as of right brian specs out specific locations and we do that for him. which he could spec out the endusers requirments as well.

Oh yeah and it looks like 965 stuff to me!
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Old 11-02-2007, 04:55 AM
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Really excited about this one!!! My Borla is great, but I need more edge! I think this is the answer...the perfect compromise!

Not to press, but if testing goes well, when will these be ready for re-sale? I just want the ugly unfished stuff...mill markings and all! It's a freaking exhaust for cripes sake, I don't need the worry of a pretty polishing job going to *****!
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-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 11-02-2007, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayglass View Post
I'm thinking the O2 bung should go after the muffler anyway so that it doesn't get too hot. After all, when you stick a portable probe up there at the dyno it doesn't go more than a foot up the pipe. I would think dilution from the air at the exit wouldn't be a problem with a pipe that long.
O2 sensors are most effective when placed in the path of the hottest gases. That's why the 3-lead O2 sensors have a heater element two fire up the sensor. Too far down the exhaust path, you lose accuracy.
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
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Old 11-02-2007, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK-I View Post
O2 sensors are most effective when placed in the path of the hottest gases. That's why the 3-lead O2 sensors have a heater element two fire up the sensor. Too far down the exhaust path, you lose accuracy.
My understanding as well. 6" located down stream of the turbo exhaust (generally before a muffler) is what seems to be considered some sort of "standard"...of course nothing is really set in stone. I never leave my O2 sensor connected permanently - just use it for taking occasional AFR readings when tuning. I currently use the Innovate tailpipe clamp, but always wonder about it's accuracy.
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-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 11-02-2007, 09:17 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Sandman,
Let me do the final test fit and run it this weekend. If that works I'll sell you the set pictured with no extra charge for the polish. We'll have to talk about the sound level and what your expectations are.

As Ben stated we will put a bung wherever you want it. Most folks choose the neck. That is where it is on my personal muffler. If you don't leave the O2 sensor in permanatly there should be no harm. If you do wish to leave it in the life span will likely be shortened somewhat.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-02-2007, 11:38 AM
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RarlyL8 is always thinking of the community!

+1 for him...
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Old 11-02-2007, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Sandman,
Let me do the final test fit and run it this weekend. If that works I'll sell you the set pictured with no extra charge for the polish. We'll have to talk about the sound level and what your expectations are.
Very fair, indeed! Can't wait to see it fitted on your car. As for my sound expectations, I want it raspy, edgy, muscle-car like, but not as sloppy sounding as the zork can be. After a while the straight pipe just begins to wear you down...almost like something is broken when you're at the lower end of the RPM spectrum. I want to hear the whistling, and some burbling...you get the idea. The Borla XR-1 that I run, takes just a little too much character away.
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-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 11-02-2007, 05:59 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Sounds like you may need the expansion chamber version with no sound deadening material.

I just finished installing the setup. Took maybe 15 minutes to get my dual outlet muffler and waste gate dump tube off and install the new stuff. 8 nuts and your done. Gotta love that.

I'll fire it up in the morning. The wild card is the change in tone going from a full tailpipe with a 180* bend to a short tailpipe with no bend plus sound deadening material packed in the chamber. I expect the actual noise level to be the similar but the tinny edge to be taken out. That tinny edge may be what you are looking for. If so then I'll have a set made up with no packing material.

You are right about the Zork. They sound really great going down the road and on boost but at idle the turbo chopps up the flow and the note is just dead. One thing I have noticed though is if you crank your idle down to ~850rpm or so it sounds much better. My mufflers sound even more muscle-car at a lower idle as well.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-02-2007, 07:46 PM
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If I was ordering one I would ask that two bungs were installed, one before the muffler and one after the muffler. Both as near the actual muffler as practical.

Seems some get away with before and some have to fit the sensor after. I do wonder if it has to do with egt due to ignition timing, one vac pot or two on the dizzy, camshaft and its timing, length and material of headers etc etc.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 11-03-2007 at 01:44 AM..
Old 11-03-2007, 01:40 AM
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"I wuz the liquor..."
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Sounds like you may need the expansion chamber version with no sound deadening material.

I just finished installing the setup. Took maybe 15 minutes to get my dual outlet muffler and waste gate dump tube off and install the new stuff. 8 nuts and your done. Gotta love that.

I'll fire it up in the morning. The wild card is the change in tone going from a full tailpipe with a 180* bend to a short tailpipe with no bend plus sound deadening material packed in the chamber. I expect the actual noise level to be the similar but the tinny edge to be taken out. That tinny edge may be what you are looking for. If so then I'll have a set made up with no packing material.
Being that sound/noise is so very subjective, it's hard to make a call. I think I've mentioned to you, that the guy one street over from me in my neighborhood has an '84 with the original B&B dual. Looks very little like the one being manufactured today by B&B. It's the most amazing sound; some slight whistling is there, the burbling, gurgling, some slight backfiring, but it's also very refined. It's a tad louder than the Fabspeed dual.


I dunno, keep in mind my 930 sees the student drop-off line at my kids school every morning! So maybe I should be cautious of pushing too far into zork territory.

Awaiting to hear your thoughts after you've spent some time listening to it, and comparing it to the first one with the 180 bend...
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 11-03-2007, 05:03 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Road Test

Well I took her out for a 30 minute test. Ran it through all of the conditions you should see.

I am really surprised at how much of the edge was removed by the sound deadening material. This short muffler is significantly less loud than my stock exit single outlet muffler. All the characteristics are still there but subdued. It still burgles on decel but does not cackle. It is not "raw".
What would I use to take my kid through the school drop-off line? This muffler.
(I do drop my kid off with the other muffler on the car but I park around the side to avoid the extra attention).

You say your current muffler does not burble on decel? It must be more quiet than this one. Personally I would choose this one for a daily driver and my other one for a weekend warrior.

Sandman - shoot me your phone number and I'll call you on Sunday. We'll work it out.

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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-03-2007, 01:09 PM
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Looks great Brian although I did not expect anything else but the best from you & Ben!
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 11-03-2007, 01:12 PM
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-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 11-03-2007, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
I am really surprised at how much of the edge was removed by the sound deadening material. This short muffler is significantly less loud than my stock exit single outlet muffler. All the characteristics are still there but subdued. It still burgles on decel but does not cackle. It is not "raw".
Sounds perfect - and looks great...

Quote:
You say your current muffler does not burble on decel? It must be more quiet than this one.
LOL. My factory muffler still pops, bangs and burbles on decel, just very subdued.
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Old 11-04-2007, 04:07 AM
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Just spoke to Brian, and from what he's described, I think this will hopefully end the search for MY perfect sounding exhaust! I put the zork back on my car, while I run-in my new K27 HFS turbo, and I'm amazed at how much attention the car attracts!! As much as I adore that whistle, I just need a little more subtlety. It's just insane on a daily driver.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 11-05-2007, 06:45 AM
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I currently have a Zork and used to have a setup very, very similar to Brian's.

Sound? The Zork lets everything through, including the 'brrssszzt' of the turbo.
Brian's setup more than likely will produce a deepr, more hollow sound - AND since it qualifies as a muffler you are less likely in the end to receive a 'no muffler' ticket.

O2 location - trust me, you do not want it on a full time ride right next to the turbo. O2 death zone.

Brian, send me a PM and I can set you up with the sound stuff.
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:09 AM
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