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resident samsquamch
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayglass View Post
Well? Well?

I am anxiously awaiting Sand_man's appraisal of the HFS turbo with the SC cams. Does it taste great? Less filling? Spool just off idle? ;-)
Just finished the turbo install this morning. Also re-installed my zork....just for old times sake . I'll take it easy for the first drives, just to be sure it's broken in.

What I suspect is that this turbo will perform better than my basic K27-7200, BUT I doubt I'll be able to realize the HFS' full potential at upper RPMs because the SC cams will time out before the turbo runs out of air. For now it will be good enough. If I end up needing to pull the engine for any reason, maybe I'll swap out the cams then...
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 11-05-2007, 03:55 AM
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Well first impressions, it feels very different than my 7200! I haven't really applied the boost pedal too hard yet, but I get this sensation that the boost builds gradual, but steady. IT PULLS! Though I didn't push it to my rev-limiter yet, I can tell that the turbo will not run out of air IF you can feed it. However, I will say that this will take some getting used to, the 7200 was really a pretty good match for my non-track setup. The K27S that Rarly mentioned might be the Nirvana turbo, after all, for an SC cam street setup. Can't complain though, I traded my 7200 for the HFS.

More to follow, I'll take a lunch time trip on the interstate and stretch it a bit more...
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)

Last edited by sand_man; 11-05-2007 at 10:13 AM..
Old 11-05-2007, 05:49 AM
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This is turning out to be an interesting thread. I'm anxious to hear more Sand_man...
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Andy Glass
'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 11-05-2007, 07:49 AM
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My 2 cents... I was using SC cam with the original K27HF and CIS (Euro fuel rails without fuel mods, stock top/bottom end, GHL header & Tial WG) for 3 years on the track without any issue.

And, the HF/SC cam never runs out of steam all the way to red line - I know because I can pull to 6700rpm without feeling bogged down, and yes, that's why I finally bent a valve (valve float) chasing a GT-3

After 6000rpm, the acceleration is slower but its not the typically fall-off-the-mountain drop off that many expects.

As many have said - its the system. You have to match everything & define your needs.
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Old 11-05-2007, 08:16 AM
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Hobleboy, where was your spool-up with the K27HF? My 7200 comes on at 2400 and is 1 bar by 2600 or 2700 (it's hard to watch with the road coming at you fast ;-)
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Andy Glass
'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 11-05-2007, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ayglass View Post
Hobleboy, where was your spool-up with the K27HF? My 7200 comes on at 2400 and is 1 bar by 2600 or 2700 (it's hard to watch with the road coming at you fast ;-)
With CIS, spool up is probably higher by ~300 rpm. 1 bar around 3000rpm and though I'd start seeing boost around 2400 as well.

Now with EFI, ported head, a much bigger intercooler & B&B headers, 1 bar actually doesn't come in until around 3400/3500 rpm. I'm still tuning so that could be a factor.
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayglass View Post
This is turning out to be an interesting thread. I'm anxious to hear more Sand_man...
So, took it out and did some beating! UUUMMM...WOW! It's like having no turbo lag...probably what was throwing me off this morning. The thing just starts spooling and keeps going all the way. It's deceiving because the power doesn't hit you hard, but make no mistake, you are flying!!! I even did some high speed 4th gear, full boost pulls and I'll be damned if it didn't deliver. The SC cams even seemed to match well; unless this car were going to see regular track time, I think the SCs will suit me just fine. I might be able to get a little more by changing my cam timing a little.

It's very difficult to watch the tach, the road, and be cognizant of the boost gauge....so I don't yet have an idea of when it begins spooling and when full boost hits....but it appears to be pretty darn efficient.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 11-05-2007, 09:46 AM
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Totally agree with Sandman - one of the biggest difference (for me) when going from K27-7006 to K27HF is the way to turbo delivers power. Its a lot of linear without the off/on/off characteristics. Its very smooth
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:53 AM
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Yup. SC cams and K27 HF here too. Max torque @ 5700, max power @ 6100, according to the dyno charts.

Makes .5 bar @ 2500 under load (dyno) and just seems to pull all the way to redline like hobieboy says - even though you know the optimum shift point is before that.

It's pretty interesting with a boost gauge that shows vacuum so you can see the boost building from N/A mode (-1 bar). Does start climbing pretty low down, and the boost starts being noticable @ 3-4 PSI below atmospheric - and very noticable indeed @ 3-4 above atmo, at which point you should be focusing on the road...

Do miss the hammer-blow to the chest, but it's much easier to drive (especially in the wet) being more progressive/predictable - and a lot faster...
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Old 11-05-2007, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by spuggy View Post

Do miss the hammer-blow to the chest, but it's much easier to drive (especially in the wet) being more progressive/predictable - and a lot faster...
Yeah, that's what I was getting at. With my 7200, I used to find myself getting prepared for launch, and then it would sort of fall off at the upper end - don't get me wrong, it was/is plenty for the street. With the HFS the power delivery feels VERY different...you go fast without this huge explosion.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 11-05-2007, 11:54 AM
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Yeah, that's what I was getting at. With my 7200, I used to find myself getting prepared for launch, and then it would sort of fall off at the upper end - don't get me wrong, it was/is plenty for the street. With the HFS the power delivery feels VERY different...you go fast without this huge explosion.
Whoa! You swapped a used K27/7200 for a new K27/HFS!!?! I missed that it was the 'S' flavor. Man, that was one sweet deal! And you still have a full complement of internal organs and limbs?

The K27/7200 sounds very similar to the 3DLZ, that's exactly what it felt like to drive. Used to have to collect your thoughts and breathe between shifts... Guess the 7200 probably flows better than the original boat anchor, though.

I noticed that the K27/HF took some pilot re-calibration once you just start enjoying the different sports car you ended up with. In other words, keep an eye on the speedo, that road could be shorter than you think...
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Old 11-05-2007, 12:50 PM
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So, correct me if all this info has resulted in boost-inspired hallucinations. For a smoother spool-up and less on/off effect the HF or the HFS seems like an improvement without losing the quicker spool. The HFS has more flow, so for a regular CIS car the HF would be plenty. Am I right so far?

The only remaining question is, would the K27-S be a better choice for a CIS car with SC cams just because of the price difference (about $500 new)? If a k27-7200 dies and EFI isn't in the plans, how much turbo does one buy?

The HF or HFS still sound like good upgrades for me as I drive in the mountain twisties most of the time and on/off switch boost is a challenge...
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'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...

Last edited by ayglass; 11-05-2007 at 02:24 PM..
Old 11-05-2007, 01:15 PM
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The HFS turbo is the new HF. The HF is no longer made by Kevin anymore.

The S is the smaller of the HFS & the S.

So, the S will spool slightly earlier but the HFS will be the turbo for the bigger bhp numbers.
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Old 11-05-2007, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayglass View Post
So, correct me if all this info has resulted in boost-inspired hallucinations. For a smoother spool-up and less on/off effect the HF or the HFS seems like an improvement without losing the quicker spool. The HFS has more flow, so for a regulat CIS car the HF would be plenty. Am I right so far?

The only remaining question is, would the K27-S be a better choice for a CIS car with SC cams just because of the price difference (about $500 new)? If a k27-7200 dies and EFI isn't in the plans, how much turbo does one buy?
I'm thinking the HF can support more power than I currently make, but it doesn't seem to have any vices as a result of that... Nice to have one component that'll support other upgrades without needing to be replaced, heh...

IA have some descriptions and comparisons here:

http://www.imagineauto.com/turbos.htm

Quote:
The HF or HFS still sound like good upgrades for me as I drive in the mountain twisties most of the time and on/off switch boost is a challenge...
If you drive twisties, you'd love a 65/40 LSD, even if you already have a factory ZF. Transforms the car. You'll thank yourself everytime you brake lining up for a corner - just my $0.02...
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Old 11-05-2007, 02:17 PM
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Thanks for the tip Spuggy. I have a short R&P in mine right now with the factory ZF. I need to get that R&P back to stock because it sings to me constantly and makes first gear an adventure in spinning the tires. Maybe I could put the stock R&P in and a new LSD with it! I wish I could find someone going to a G50 who would like to sell their stock 930 transmission ;-)
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'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 11-05-2007, 02:58 PM
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