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2369488's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wichita
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Question Need advice on upgrade of cams?

Engine is tore down due to #3 rod bearing failure. Thinking about doing a few upgrades. Here is what I current have:

K27 w/Andial intercooler, 1 bar spring
Euro Fuel system
Knife edge crank
aluminum flywheel
B&B dual outlet muffler
Boat tail pistons

I am thinking about upgrading the cams to either 964 or SC. Any suggestions on this. Any other upgrades. I am thinking 400 hp neighborhood is where I would like to be.

This is strictly a street car and occasional DE runs.

thanks
Old 12-02-2007, 02:26 PM
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I put SC's back in mine after a lubrication failure took out my previous SC cams. I like the low end on the street.
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Andy Glass
'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 12-03-2007, 01:12 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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SCs here as well. 964 and SC both work well with CIS. I'd give the edge to SC for driveability (read low end torque).
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 12-03-2007, 07:41 AM
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Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
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Either will be fine, but my nod goes to the 964 because of drivability and future mods. As with any cam, correct timing really makes the installation.
Old 12-03-2007, 08:39 AM
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Forget that cutesy crank and piston stuff, it is a waste of money.

Concentrate on:

SC cams
Headers & muffler
Additional fuel management
Making certain the injectors are 100%

Removal of the warmup (AAV, and everything except the WUR - which should be a Leask unit) and emissions stuff if you feel adventurous and can tolerate a manual morning warmup -
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 12-03-2007, 09:34 AM
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Not to hijack but what is the value of SC cams over the stock 930 ones? I keep hearing people talk about it but I really don't know what the diff is.
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Mark 1979 930 Euro ***GONE AND DON'T MISS IT AT ALL***

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Old 12-03-2007, 10:06 AM
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more low end tourqe from I have gathered.
Old 12-03-2007, 11:10 AM
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I have 964 cams, along with similar mods:

K27-7200
Kokelin IC
1 bar spring
B&B Headers
Custom free flow exhaust.

Dyno reading at 375 rwhp and 372 tq. very happy with results, especially after adding new shorter gearsets for 2, 3 and 4th combined with a black-out Wevo short shift kit.

a blast to drive on the street... next move is concentrate on the suspension and to dump some weight.
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:39 PM
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sudo apt-get purge 930
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rory Mckenna View Post
more low end tourqe from I have gathered.
Won't it hurt you the high end then?
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Mark 1979 930 Euro ***GONE AND DON'T MISS IT AT ALL***

"Worrying about depreciation on your car and keeping mileage down is like not ****ing your girlfriend so her next boyfriend finds her more appealing"
--clutch-monkey
Old 12-03-2007, 03:30 PM
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since I wasn't specifically concentrating on building a high reving engine, having all the components poop out at around 6k rpm was fine. neck snaping torque with lightening acceleration gives me all I can handle without being thrown into the back seat... especially ON THE STREET.

I even wore down the threading on the steering wheel just holding on these past 4 years. added a Momo Prototipo. much better grip... haven't once lost control

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Old 12-03-2007, 04:11 PM
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Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2369488 View Post
Engine is tore down due to #3 rod bearing failure. Thinking about doing a few upgrades. Here is what I current have:

K27 w/Andial intercooler, 1 bar spring
Euro Fuel system
Knife edge crank
aluminum flywheel
B&B dual outlet muffler
Boat tail pistons

I am thinking about upgrading the cams to either 964 or SC. Any suggestions on this. Any other upgrades. I am thinking 400 hp neighborhood is where I would like to be.

This is strictly a street car and occasional DE runs.

thanks
400 hp is a bit of a stretch for what you are doing.

Also, what are boat tail pistons?
Old 12-03-2007, 05:01 PM
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whats the drivabilty issues with the 964 cams? and is knife edging the crank really a waste of money?
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Old 12-03-2007, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h20cooled7 View Post
whats the drivabilty issues with the 964 cams? and is knife edging the crank really a waste of money?
my fathers car has 964 cams , no problem .....

and the 911 cranks are already pretty thin to begin with .. the counterweights are small..
Old 12-03-2007, 05:34 PM
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Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h20cooled7 View Post
whats the drivabilty issues with the 964 cams? and is knife edging the crank really a waste of money?
I went from SC330 to 964 cams. Low end was not changed but top end increased a couple. BUT, I advanced the 964 cam timing to get low end. The dyno curves were fairly close, but overall I liked the 964 because they let my motor build breath better.

I think knife edging is a waste of money on a street car because it lives 95% of the time at lower rpm's. Even a DE car probably wouldn't be worth the additional expense.

If you feel the need to spend extra money, decide on a motor build, then have Dema Elgin or Neil Harvey grind a custom cam specifically for your build. You'll get more use out of that then boat tailing the case or knife edging the crank - guaranteed.
Old 12-03-2007, 05:55 PM
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SC Cams will take you to 6000 RPM with no problem and 964's give more top end at the cost of some low end driveability. The k27 turbos will run out of breath before then anyway. Generally, the K27 flow takes you to about 5500. I wouldn't go beyond 6000 with the stock rod bolts and the mods you mention. Skip the boattailing, knife-edging, cylinder reliefs. Headers, turbo(K27 7200 or 7002) and SC cams will do wonders for these engines. More flow? Go with the 964 cams and a Garrett GT35r.....but then there's custom header flange and turbo to IC interconnect tubes in the works.
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 12-03-2007, 05:56 PM
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Does anyone know the optimum cam timing setting for 964 cams on a 1982 euro 930 turbo and also do any adjustments have to be made to fuel etc?
Old 12-03-2007, 11:03 PM
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In addition to not being a fan of knife edge crank or boat tail pistons in the 930, I'm also not a fan of boat tailing the case. A little radiusing is fine, but I'd want as much meat in the case as I can get.
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Old 12-04-2007, 04:45 AM
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The cam timing, for any cam(s), depends on the rest of the build and what you want out of your engine.
For example, my CIS engine was put together with streetable torque in mind so the SC cams were used and a 2700 turbo. The cams were ultimately set in the midrange to move the torque up the range a bit to help the tranny out. If you put the components together with a specific goal in mind you can then tune the torque range with the ignition and the cam timing.
You won't know about fuel adjustments until readings are taken or if the build is expected to exceed 350WHP. It's always a good idea to check the A/F ratios after a change is made.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 12-04-2007, 06:25 AM
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So can 930 cams be reground to SC specs?
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Mark 1979 930 Euro ***GONE AND DON'T MISS IT AT ALL***

"Worrying about depreciation on your car and keeping mileage down is like not ****ing your girlfriend so her next boyfriend finds her more appealing"
--clutch-monkey
Old 12-04-2007, 03:35 PM
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Yes, Dougherty Cams does it for a very reasonable price...
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 12-04-2007, 04:34 PM
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