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Macht Schnell
 
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Electromotive Tec3r Bin files Wanted

Hello,
I've roughed in the tuning on my Car and am taking it to the Tuner to dyno/Tune this week.

If you have a Tec3r bin file I could compare I would appreciate seeing it for comparison. I will send you my bin files as well if you are interested.

Thanx!
Les
__________________
---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 12-14-2007, 03:12 PM
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Most of us EFI guys have hundreds, if not thousands of dollars into our .bin (or run) files, so it's mighty tough for us to part with the file. Personally speaking, I'm OK with giving advice on parts of the file, but I won't send an entire file - it was just too much work/cost. Ask a specific question though and let's see if we can help.
Old 12-14-2007, 03:35 PM
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Macht Schnell
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonE View Post
Most of us EFI guys have hundreds, if not thousands of dollars into our .bin (or run) files, so it's mighty tough for us to part with the file. Personally speaking, I'm OK with giving advice on parts of the file, but I won't send an entire file - it was just too much work/cost. Ask a specific question though and let's see if we can help.

WoW!!!
I was totally ambushed by your response. I am speechless that you think there is some sort of competition here. The idea of a forum is so that EVERYBODY does not have to do the SAME expenditures by making the SAME mistakes that others have made. The whole Idea of an Internet Forum is ContraLateral to your attitude and way of thinking.

The idea of a forum is a shared altruistic resource of information. I participate in lots of forums in many different disciplines and share what knowledge I have to help others advance their agenda more efficiently from my knowledge sharing, it makes me feel like I contribute. Usually because I have benefited from that Forum in the Past from the Altruistic distribution of knowledge from the Forum's members.

Don, I guess you think I am going to take your BIN file and tweak it and make more HP and TQ than you have with it. Then I will use it to somehow embarrass you or something, or profit from it. Don, do you want me to offer you Money for your BIN file??

I Totally don't get your response. I have never seen this in THIS forum.

If you don't mind, keep you FREAKIN' BIN FILE!! I don't want to take food out of your Kids mouths this close to Christmas.

Your response is absolutely irrational to me. Why are you here? Waiting for an opportunity to Gloat when someone Blows up an Engine? I've read your posts and somehow missed your idiocy until now. You know, another way to handle this would be to not post a reply at all. At least then you would not have exposed your selfish nature.

Who knows, maybe I don't get it. Maybe I asked some strange request that is Taboo and struck some strange nerve. If I did it was with total ignorance. I had no idea that I was asking your little sister to pull her pants down!

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 12-14-2007, 04:57 PM
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Everyone take a deep breath.

Ive recceived and shared files for Megasquirt and have posted Adaptronic maps here and by mail. Some people like to share them, but its everyone's choice.

I dont have one for an engine like yours but Id be surprised if someone doesnt have something to help.
__________________
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Old 12-14-2007, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJL View Post
Everyone take a deep breath.

Ive recceived and shared files for Megasquirt and have posted Adaptronic maps here and by mail. Some people like to share them, but its everyone's choice.

I dont have one for an engine like yours but Id be surprised if someone doesnt have something to help.
Hi John,
You perfectly illustrate my point. You've RECEIVED and SHARED information here. Personally I always feel good about helping someone out with my experience if I can. Don apparently wants someone to cut him a check. If he didn't want to share, he could've not posted a reply saying, NO I WON'T SHARE.

Anyhow, I would like to see your advance curve. I got my Tec3r from Richard Clewett with a roughed in BIN file. The car runs good for a roughed in file. I received another bin file from another member of the forum here and his advance curve was much less aggressive than mine is. His Tec3r was tuned by a shop. I'm trying to get some data points for my tuning this week and would like to see some Ignition curves.

Les
__________________
---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 12-14-2007, 06:27 PM
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Wow - didn't expect your response. Good luck.
Old 12-14-2007, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonE View Post
Wow - didn't expect your response. Good luck.
Hi Don,
Thanx for nuthin'

I didn't expect your response either.

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 12-14-2007, 07:26 PM
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Les - I'm sorry - I didn't mean it how you took it.

If you really knew me from these lists, you would know I try to give responses based on my personal experiences (not biased by a supplier), I've gone to other Porsche owners homes to help do something, I've helped dozens of people who come to my house for help, and I post my successes as well as my f-ups so we can learn.

As for the files, if someone wants to share their entire file, cool. I just sold one of my files to someone in Atlanta who had a similar build, for $500. This also includes me helping him dial it in. So far, I've we've spent about 5 1/2 hours fine tuning his idle, warm up, temp correction, closed loop operation and low speed, low RPM AFR - I think we're done. I am attempting to recover some of the cost of my project.

Again, sorry.
Old 12-14-2007, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonE View Post
Les - I'm sorry - I didn't mean it how you took it.

If you really knew me from these lists, you would know I try to give responses based on my personal experiences (not biased by a supplier), I've gone to other Porsche owners homes to help do something, I've helped dozens of people who come to my house for help, and I post my successes as well as my f-ups so we can learn.

As for the files, if someone wants to share their entire file, cool. I just sold one of my files to someone in Atlanta who had a similar build, for $500. This also includes me helping him dial it in. So far, I've we've spent about 5 1/2 hours fine tuning his idle, warm up, temp correction, closed loop operation and low speed, low RPM AFR - I think we're done. I am attempting to recover some of the cost of my project.

Again, sorry.
Hi Don,
I HAVE read a lot of your posts. That's why I was so surprised. Your recent post keep clarifying who you are. You sold a BIN file for $500. Good for you. I guess you could have sent me a proposal for purchase thru a post or a pm.

Here's the answer I would have given you, NO, I'm not Interested!

I won't pay for something that is marginally relevant to my motor.

There are so many variables to an engine that a BIN file is in it's absolute sense worthless. I just wanted to see what others had done with their ignition curves. In a relevant sense, a BIN file can show how others accomplished what you are trying to do. Which is why I made this Thread.

If you consider port diameters, manifolds, Header primary Diameters, Throttle body diameters, Inj sizes, Mufflers, etc, a file is just something to look at to reference how somebody else went somewhere. If I were going to spend $500, I would spend it on Dyno time, not BUYING a file from someone else's car.

The good news is that when I get my engine tuned, there's a ready market on PelicanParts who will pay $500 for my bin file. Of course I'll be really stupid here and give it away for free like a number of other things I have done in relation to Porsche's and BMW Motorcycles, just to name a few.

I just looked in the mirror and guess that I am the stupid one here. I haven't sold any of my expertise over the 23 years I've spent on the net. I've given all that away for free. Boy, I'm feelin' pretty stupid about now...

Les
__________________
---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 12-14-2007, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
Hi Don,
I HAVE read a lot of your posts. That's why I was so surprised. Your recent post keep clarifying who you are. You sold a BIN file for $500. Good for you. I guess you could have sent me a proposal for purchase thru a post or a pm.

Here's the answer I would have given you, NO, I'm not Interested!

I won't pay for something that is marginally relevant to my motor.

There are so many variables to an engine that a BIN file is in it's absolute sense worthless. I just wanted to see what others had done with their ignition curves. In a relevant sense, a BIN file can show how others accomplished what you are trying to do. Which is why I made this Thread.

If you consider port diameters, manifolds, Header primary Diameters, Throttle body diameters, Inj sizes, Mufflers, etc, a file is just something to look at to reference how somebody else went somewhere. If I were going to spend $500, I would spend it on Dyno time, not BUYING a file from someone else's car.

The good news is that when I get my engine tuned, there's a ready market on PelicanParts who will pay $500 for my bin file. Of course I'll be really stupid here and give it away for free like a number of other things I have done in relation to Porsche's and BMW Motorcycles, just to name a few.

I just looked in the mirror and guess that I am the stupid one here. I haven't sold any of my expertise over the 23 years I've spent on the net. I've given all that away for free. Boy, I'm feelin' pretty stupid about now...

Les
Les,
DonE is extremely generous in offering experiences and opinions to all of us at Pelican. Frankly, I don't know why you went so ballistic when DonE deferred in providing you a copy of his binary file. You even mention that based upon all of the different engine parameters, the bin file is of little use on an engine of different construction.
It gets to the root of a widespread problem of file sharing. Who the he!! thinks that a software file, whether it's a music file or software code, should be free for the whole damn world to use. This is a perfect case in point. DonE has thousands of dollars and hundreds of man-hours invested in his engine and has paid dearly the hard way with disastrous hardware failures in the ECU and engine mechanicals. I thought his response was quite restrained, considering. Of course, I'm a past software developer and Engineering Manager. So maybe I'm a bit thin-skinned on the whole (Socialistic) file sharing, intellectual property, fiasco.
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 12-15-2007, 08:35 AM
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Macht Schnell
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK-I View Post
Les,
DonE is extremely generous in offering experiences and opinions to all of us at Pelican. Frankly, I don't know why you went so ballistic when DonE deferred in providing you a copy of his binary file. You even mention that based upon all of the different engine parameters, the bin file is of little use on an engine of different construction.
It gets to the root of a widespread problem of file sharing. Who the he!! thinks that a software file, whether it's a music file or software code, should be free for the whole damn world to use. This is a perfect case in point. DonE has thousands of dollars and hundreds of man-hours invested in his engine and has paid dearly the hard way with disastrous hardware failures in the ECU and engine mechanicals. I thought his response was quite restrained, considering. Of course, I'm a past software developer and Engineering Manager. So maybe I'm a bit thin-skinned on the whole (Socialistic) file sharing, intellectual property, fiasco.
Hi Dave,
I concur with your assessment of Don's contributions to the Forum. That's why I was surprised. A few points I would like to point out.

1) He could have not posted anything if he didn't want to share. His post amounted to, I have a file, and you can't have it.

2) BIN files are not copyrighted intellectual property. You should know that. I own the Software and Hardware that the BIN file runs on. Additionally, the software is freely available on Electromotive's Web site. There is no copyright infringement issue here.

3) The purpose of a forum is to keep people from reinventing the wheel, or help them avoid what you termed, "disastrous hardware failures in the ECU and engine mechanicals".

4) Don owns his BIN file, no doubt about that. He doesn't want to share. That's his business, I don't understand it, but it's his business.

I obviously had a problem with this premise:

I've got a file, you can't have it. Why post that?

Your idea of, he's gone through his trials and tribulations, and now it's your turn mystifies me also. I think you are arguing a weak position merely to back Don up.

DonE, I have no issue with you, you don't want to share your file, that's fine with me. I just think you should have kept that to yourself. I've never argued about anything on this board, and don't foresee ever being at odds again with you in the future. This thread will not bleed over into any other post of mine, I don't hold grudges.

Now, if anybody who has a bin file and would kindly share it, I would be interested in seeing a tuned electromotive Tec3r bin file. I am particularly interested in the advance curve amongst other things.

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 12-15-2007, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
2) BIN files are not copyrighted intellectual property. You should know that. I own the Software and Hardware that the BIN file runs on. Additionally, the software is freely available on Electromotive's Web site. There is no copyright infringement issue here.
Hi Les,
Thanks for your response. Yes, you are correct in that DonE's Bin file is not "copyrighted intellectual property", but I never used the term "copyrighted". The BIN file, technically, is intellectual property once DonE started changing its parameters to suit his engine requirements. Furthermore, DonE could be held liable for any damages incurred by another user on another engine. I doubt anyone on this forum would ever hold someone else liable for such a practice, but beware. If you read through Electromotive's software licensing agreement you'll probably such wording in their Disclaimer Statements.
In this country of litigators, it's CYA time!
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 12-15-2007, 09:21 AM
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Les PM me or Email me I have a bunch of bin's for a TEc 3 ( thought I ripped it out of the car after 2 years an would not get with in 100 feet of another electromotive product ) just like DonE.

regardless I have a few really really expensive bins you can have

L8tr C2turbo
Old 12-29-2007, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c2turbo View Post
Les PM me or Email me I have a bunch of bin's for a TEc 3 ( thought I ripped it out of the car after 2 years an would not get with in 100 feet of another electromotive product ) just like DonE.

regardless I have a few really really expensive bins you can have

L8tr C2turbo
Hi C2Turbo,
I understand your frustration with Electromotive for sure. You timing is perfect, I am going to get some Dyno tuning on Jan 2. I'm trying to get as much info as possible presently. My email address is:

Les.Garten@yahoo.com

Thanx for the input!

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 12-29-2007, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c2turbo View Post
Les PM me or Email me I have a bunch of bin's for a TEc 3 ( thought I ripped it out of the car after 2 years an would not get with in 100 feet of another electromotive product ) just like DonE.

regardless I have a few really really expensive bins you can have

L8tr C2turbo
Hi,
Thanx for the file! What did you replace the Tec3 with?

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 12-30-2007, 08:44 AM
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DTA S80 I love it it is hands down one of the coolest systems I have had the pleasure of tuning on. it gives plug and play a whole new meaning. Idle was perfect out of the box ( using all stock Bosch Porsche sensors ) and driveability is as nice if not better than stock. on my first 1000 mile break in I am getting 21 mpg. with the Tec 3 the car would run great one day and completely different the next I just could not take it anymore. It could of been my ECU ( it did get set back 6 time in 2 years) but it just left a bad taste for Electromotive for me


good luck on the tuning

C2turbo
Old 12-30-2007, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
WoW!!!
I had no idea that I was asking your little sister to pull her pants down!
Les

Thats awsome!! HAHAHAHA


Les- If I had Tec3 I would send you the file but I have an ACCEL DFI. I could understand DONE's statement though. I had to grab my ankles pretty hard when I got my car tuned and for some people it is a tough pill to swallow.
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Old 12-30-2007, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by c2turbo View Post
DTA S80 I love it it is hands down one of the coolest systems I have had the pleasure of tuning on. it gives plug and play a whole new meaning. Idle was perfect out of the box ( using all stock Bosch Porsche sensors ) and driveability is as nice if not better than stock. on my first 1000 mile break in I am getting 21 mpg. with the Tec 3 the car would run great one day and completely different the next I just could not take it anymore. It could of been my ECU ( it did get set back 6 time in 2 years) but it just left a bad taste for Electromotive for me


good luck on the tuning

C2turbo
Hmmm, Disconcerting. I've noticed that I think I have my idle under control and the next day, it's laughing at me(Idle wander). I built the engine and have been blaming myself so far. Now I'm thinkin' I'm not necessarily to blame. My last 930 build went perfect. Another ECU may be in my future.

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 12-30-2007, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
Thats awsome!! HAHAHAHA


Les- If I had Tec3 I would send you the file but I have an ACCEL DFI. I could understand DONE's statement though. I had to grab my ankles pretty hard when I got my car tuned and for some people it is a tough pill to swallow.

Hi 930GT,
I'm mainly looking for advance curves. If I could see a screen capture of yours it wold be great. I don't see the difference between a bin file and supplying info about a bad vendor. A bin file cannot be used directly to avoid tuning. You must tune each motor individually. However, the bin file may show direction.

I've got 5 or 6 bin files. The advance curves are greatly different. That worries me, so I'm going to keep looking, trying to find a pattern.

In reference to sharing info, that's waht we are here for. If I have a severe problem with a vendor like 100 other people, and we all decide to keep quiet so you can make the same mistakes, is that a forum? The whole point of a forum is so that everyone does not keep going to someone like motorrmeister!!!

If everyone sat around and said, "It cost me a lot of money, and it will cost you the same", we wouldn't get anywhere.

I'm going to Joe Essa in Ft Lauderdale on Jan 2 for "Final Tuning" . It's going to cost a ton of money as I knew it would.

Here's the deal:

ANYONE WHO WANTS THE BIN FILE CAN HAVE IT, JUST ASK!

IT IS ABSOLUTELY NO SKIN OFF MY NOSE.

And you can pull my sister's pants down if you want to, she's a slut anyhow!

I would like to see your advance curve though....

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 12-30-2007, 09:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
Hi 930GT,
And you can pull my sister's pants down if you want to, she's a slut anyhow!
I would like to see your advance curve though....
Les
Hahaha, your killing me stop.

As for the curve, let me try to get in, my data cable is giving me crap
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Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette
Old 12-31-2007, 05:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
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