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Alan L's Avatar
 
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Using Gorans method I have adapted a system using the rubber elbow (rotated 90deg). No room to fit anything between the hose coupling down to turbo inlet.
I have leaks everywhere. My compressor could not pressurise the system initially. It is a testament to the turbo it actually made boost at all. Some of the leaks are understandable - like the inlet manifold/injector housing seals. Several leaks in this area. But the weirdest one came out under the fuse box up front. An open end of plastic tube like used for the windscreen washer lines. How/why that is hooked into my boost system, I have no idea. Suspect it may be connected to my banjo nipple thing where Goran has the disc unit, and I don't (mine has obviously been removed). But why would it bleed to atmos?
This will keep me busy for a while. My compressor can now get to 0.5 bar. Still lots of leaks to get at. Aren't turbos fun?
Alan
Old 12-19-2007, 01:33 PM
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Sweet!
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 12-19-2007, 02:05 PM
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K-Jet injector seals shouldn't leak. I never pulled 930 ones but on other cars there was a rubber O-ring around each. If those leak idle speed will go up and you'll spend ages scratching your head and trying to adjust it. You'll turn idle screws and fiddle with CO-settings but nothing will help. (Isn't this exactly what you did buy the way? )You can use standard O-rings in appropriate dimension. Fix those leaks.

You are lucky that you didn't drive longer with that kind of leaks. If you had so many leaks that turbo started going down in boost then turbo was probably overspeeding trying to compensate. Turbochargers are made to pump air acording to certain mass flow/pressure ratio. It's those fancy island-like graphs.

If you try to force it to push air at high mass flow and low pressure ratio (=off the chart "eye") all kind of bad things can happend. Impeller might start to cavitate at the same time as shaft is overspeeding = impending danger to compressor blades and bearings.
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Old 12-19-2007, 02:22 PM
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P.S. Jamming the test pipe upstream from BOV won't reveal BOV leaks...you need to pressurize between turbo and BOV. Can't you just remove the rubber from turbo inlet and install makeshift hose so you can pressurize from turbo downwards?

Of course, you should first hunt down all the leaks. It will be a huuuge difference once you plug all leaks and adjust idle and AFR's. Just hang on there!


P.P.S.
I believe my disc hose was connected in pipe between turbo and CIS. So even if it is "hemmoraging" air a little it won't dump measured air into atmosphere.
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Last edited by beepbeep; 12-19-2007 at 02:30 PM..
Old 12-19-2007, 02:28 PM
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I don't think my injectors are leaking - but anything is possible - I have so many leaks to find, until I start nailing some of them they won't all be obvious. But the engine leaks I can find easily are between the big flat inlet manifold and injector block - the bits the injectors screw into. My compressor is not huge - 200 l/min. Until I plugged the open line behind the fuse box, it struggled to get to 0.1 bar. Now I can do 0.5 bar, so still loosing lots somewhere.
Am I not pressurising the whole system from here? - the inlet manifold is obviously pressurised - by the leaks I see. Any suggestions what I should do with the hose above the BOV - as I suspect that is the one I have plugged - even tho it exited behind the fuse box.
Alan
Old 12-19-2007, 03:00 PM
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It would be useful to know what the hose and disc thing from the BOV does. Under boost conditions, my hose just seemed to be evnting. But then it hardly makes sense to run a hose the length of the car just to vent into the fuse box. Maybe it had something else on the end?
But if I blank it off, there is no sense having the banjo fitting above the BOV. So, it must have a purpose. Don't know what tho, or what mine should be hooked into.
Closing it off helps the boost leak situation, but is probably not the long term answer.
Alan
Old 12-19-2007, 05:14 PM
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Ahh...your phenolic intake spacers are probably cracked. It's very common. You should remove whole intake and replace all of them. I believe Pelican has them. You can also make your own, if you are good with lathe. Injectors are mounted in them so what you believe is injector seal leak is probably cracks in spacer.

It's the black blocks on the left intake:


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Old 12-20-2007, 04:42 AM
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You'll need six pieces of number 7. They cost 45 American pesos a piece at our host. You might just have leaking seals if you are lucky so dissasemble everything and check for cracks. There is no point in replacing only cracked ones. Replace them all even if only two are cracked.

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Old 12-20-2007, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
It would be useful to know what the hose and disc thing from the BOV does. Under boost conditions, my hose just seemed to be evnting. But then it hardly makes sense to run a hose the length of the car just to vent into the fuse box. Maybe it had something else on the end?
But if I blank it off, there is no sense having the banjo fitting above the BOV. So, it must have a purpose. Don't know what tho, or what mine should be hooked into.
Closing it off helps the boost leak situation, but is probably not the long term answer.
Alan
There is a long line going from intake into vacuum brake servo. There should be a check valve as as well. Other from that, there was a thin line going from banjo bolt , trough T-orifice (and damper disc) and then blocked. My memory is flaky but I'm quite certain mine was blocked off.

The disc grommet has probably a membrane of some sort in it, acting as a damper.
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Old 12-20-2007, 05:21 AM
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Thanks Goran - Can't find them listed at Pelican at moment. But will pull the gear off (for 10th time) and have a look. This may explain the backfire I get after cruising for a few minutes at light throttle load - what leaks under pressure also leaks under vacuum.
The 930 injectors don't have the O ring - they seat into the phenolic blocks on a copper washer. Much better.
I have the Vac servo line + check valve. Alongside that the banjo above the BOV leads off another line following the servo line. I have checked and it is connected to the open vent line behind the fuse box up front. Weird - must have had something else hooked into it. Maybe I need to find one of those damper things - the mounting holes are there on the manifold.
Alan
Old 12-20-2007, 09:55 AM
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Well you can block it off where it is (under the fuse box) and let whole line act as a damper. It wouldn't surprise me if it was done this way but whatever blocked the line up front fell off.
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:19 PM
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I have seen a hose ran from a banjo fitting attached to the BOV assembly to the front trunk area for a VDO type boost gauge that replaces the clock in the dash. Does your car have a boost gauge where the clock should be?
Old 12-20-2007, 12:56 PM
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I have a clock boost gauge but as far as I can see it works off a Tee from the brake boost line just before the booster. Maybe this was the early version - before the Tee was put in, and maybe as Goran says it was blanked off and tucked away behind the fuse box. And maybe with excessive boost (EBC) the blanking bit got blown out. The car came with a handwritten note stuck over the boost gauge - Do not exceed 1 bar or engine will break.
If anyone some time can get a part number off that damper - I may be able to Google it and source one 2 nd hand off another vehicle.
Thanks
Alan
Old 12-20-2007, 01:23 PM
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I am thinking maybe the lack of this damper - if that is what it is- may have been the cause of the violent air plate spasms. I have yet to identify the reason. But the CIS system seems sensitive to them with the large air plate, and very fine control arm movements. This apparatus seems unique to the turbo tho - but then the turbo would suffer the most violent intake manifold pressure fluctuations. So, it may not be directly related to the BOV, but rather something to moderate the boost/off boost pressure surges in the intake system.
My engine is also lacking the stopper over the air plate (on order). This may not have helped either. The new fuel head piston has certainly improved things, but the odd minor spasm still occurs - which eventually corrects itself (most obvious coming onto the idle). An extra bit of intake damping maybe what is required.
Alan
Old 12-20-2007, 05:09 PM
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Hmm. I had the feeling that "disc" thingy had something to do with the air pump for emissions. I could be wrong though.

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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 12-23-2007 at 09:47 AM..
Old 12-23-2007, 09:29 AM
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Now that Nathan posted a PET pic, I'm quite sure my hose going from "disc" was blanked off with a small screw as my air-injection system was removed all together.

With that in mind, I would try to just block the hose going from a banjo alltogheter and concentrate on leaky parts. I bet all your CO and idle speed issues will go away once you fix the leaks and re-adjust the CO screw. Your turbo will have much easier life as well.
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Old 12-25-2007, 09:58 AM
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Thanks guys. It looks like the banjo may have been used as a convenient point to hook a boost gauge on to at some point then.
The turbo may well have a different air injection system - requiring this damper bit.
Will proceed with the more important bits - like leaks.
Regards
Alan
Old 12-30-2007, 01:36 PM
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How are leaks doing nowadays?
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:38 AM
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Thanks fopr the enquiry Goran. I took the engine pic just now to answer your query.
I was about to install it in the car. As you may be able to see, new injector blocks/seals installed. Plus a new 2nd hand set of injectors from Brian, which I have scrupulously flushed with cleaner. I have leak tested it this far and seems OK - as far as I can tell. I still cannot pressurise the system - even at this level. I am loosing pressure thru the exhaust. Given the leak down numbers are very good, I am beginning to assume the cam in it has some overlap. As you can see - I finally pulled the engine. So many things to fix, it was simpler. Just had new oil lines and a solid brake line made up and fitted this morning - while engine still out. So many fittings are frozen or stripped. Replaced synchros and dogs in gear box, and lowered gearing on 3 & 4.
Still waiting on new set of turbo seals from Pelican to check rest of system. Parts take quite a while to arrive - I have a constant stream of parts in transit - each time thinking I have ordered the last ones.
Was about to marry gearbox to engine to fit in car when your e mail arrived. I was about to make a clutch centering tool when I discovered my clutch is buggered. (pic). This will explain the transmission clunk I get before the car drives. I have been looking for this - suspecting diff backlash. I finally pulled the CVJ's apart and found a damaged one. Replacement on way from Pelican. I thought I had found the source of the clunk.
So, cannot install engine now. Will have to order something more from Pelican. Everything I look at on this car is rubbish.
Will content myself with putting panels back on -(pic). Just picked body up from shop yesterday while I worked on trans and engine. Had rust in the guard seams - painted over.
One day I'm going to drive this thing - but not for a while yet.
Regards
Alan

Old 02-08-2008, 03:59 PM
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