Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Metal Guru
 
911nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,509
Garage
Observation: Some Things Never Change

When I had an SC I spent all of my time over in the 911 Tech forum chasing more HP.
Now that I have a 965 I spend all my time in this forum chasing more HP.
I've learned that getting meaningful HP in a DYI format with either car is $15k minimum.
That kind of cash into an SC takes you from 180 hp to 265 hp.
With a turbo you can go from 300 hp to 500 hp.
All in all, I'm much happier with a 300 hp turbo than I was with a 180 hp SC.
Thanks for listening
That is all.
__________________
Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 12-26-2007, 01:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Glorious Pac NW
Posts: 2,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911nut View Post
When I had an SC I spent all of my time over in the 911 Tech forum chasing more HP.
Now that I have a 965 I spend all my time in this forum chasing more HP.
I've learned that getting meaningful HP in a DYI format with either car is $15k minimum.
That kind of cash into an SC takes you from 180 hp to 265 hp.
With a turbo you can go from 300 hp to 500 hp.
All in all, I'm much happier with a 300 hp turbo than I was with a 180 hp SC.
Thanks for listening
That is all.
Hmm. The first plateau is much cheaper than $15K.

I/C = $2000
K27 = $2000
Headers = $2400
Cams = $600

Add $1000 or so for intake, adjustable WUR, other fueling mods and dyno runs to dial it in/check it.

That's a comfortable 400 FWHP (330 RWHP) for $8000 DIY - and many of those items are available cheaper than that if you get lucky or choose cheaper brands - I bought my GHLs, Kokeln and K27/HF (all with 1500 miles on them) very cheaply, courtesy of another Pelican.
__________________
'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 12-26-2007, 02:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Metal Guru
 
911nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,509
Garage
Spuggy,
Already have a K27-7200 and big I/C (all stock on a 965).
Cams? If I do the cams I think it would be dumb not to overhaul the heads. If I overhaul the heads it isn't "that much more" to open up the crankcase and now I've rebuilt the engine.
The only alternative intake that I'm aware of is a Carrera one. From everything I've read, this will require an aftermarket I/C and head porting. At that point I might as well do the full blown EFI route. Now I'll need and ECU and a array of engine sensors.
This isn't a slippery slope, it's a cliff
I got to get started robbing some convenience stores
__________________
Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 12-26-2007, 02:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 5,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911nut View Post
Spuggy,
Already have a K27-7200 and big I/C (all stock on a 965).
Cams? If I do the cams I think it would be dumb not to overhaul the heads. If I overhaul the heads it isn't "that much more" to open up the crankcase and now I've rebuilt the engine.
The dreaded whileyou'reinthere disease!
__________________
Bryan O.
77 930
08 Boxster
14 535i M Sport
Old 12-26-2007, 02:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,410
Garage
Changing cams doesn't require removing the heads so it doesn't have to be so tempting.

I replaced my SC engine with a 930 engine for an immediate 100HP gain. For under $10K more you can take the next leap from 300HP to 400HP. The leap from 400HP to 500HP starts the exponential climb of diminishing returns.

The best bang for the buck is spent staying below 400WHP concentrating on torque and lowering the boost threshold. Another viable option is re-gearing the tranny to better use what you have.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 12-26-2007, 04:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Glorious Pac NW
Posts: 2,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911nut View Post
Spuggy,
Already have a K27-7200 and big I/C (all stock on a 965).
Very few people fitting new K27/7200's these days. They're an improvement over a 3DLZ, sure...

Modern K27 hybrids are much nicer. I make max power @ 6100 RPM with a turbo that builds .5 bar @ 2500 RPM.

With SC cams and 8.0:1 C/R, I'm trading off-boost response for being limited on max boost. But I'm also torque-limited by a 915 anyway. So I'm pretty happy that i top out @ 395HP/350 lb/ft, as this was pretty much what I was aiming at.

Useful increase over stock in a lightish (2500#) car with a 5-speed. What I hadn't expected was the incredible increase in drivability by having almost no turbo lag...

Quote:
Cams? If I do the cams I think it would be dumb not to overhaul the heads.
Why, if they don't need it? My top end was rebuilt 25,000 previously when I spun the rod bearing. It was all checked, was perfect and went right back on.

If they do need it, then they gotta be done anyway... See, it's easy when it's not your motor

Quote:
If I overhaul the heads it isn't "that much more" to open up the crankcase and now I've rebuilt the engine.
Opinions vary. Me, I believe people are pushing their luck using the factory rod bolts in a stock motor. I've heard of stock, staidly-driven 3.2's dropping rod bolts. And they're the same bottom end (I've got a 3.2 crank and rods in mine right now)...

Heck, the factory used the stock crank and rods (crack-tested and polished) on the 935's according to Frere. They're pretty stout. But the stock rod bolts? Never again for me. I wasn't planning that rebuild...

Quote:
The only alternative intake that I'm aware of is a Carrera one. From everything I've read,
The EVO MS intake replaces the stock air box. It's reputed to provide some 13 HP across the entire range (according to Imagine Auto, IIRC) by removing vortices in the inlet flow. Lighter and lots more room in the engine bay, too.

There are a couple of sources for ITB's for EFI. But you're not getting those in a $1000 line item.

Quote:
this will require an aftermarket I/C and head porting. At that point I might as well do the full blown EFI route. Now I'll need and ECU and a array of engine sensors.
This isn't a slippery slope, it's a cliff
I got to get started robbing some convenience stores
Ah, you see, you need some constraints. Set a budget and stick to it.

Sure, you can blow lots and lots of money getting to 500HP. And increasingly more for less after that.

But if you really, really, really want 500 or 600 HP, the smart way to do it would be to start with a different drivetrain as a base. Like a 3.2, or a 964 or 993. Which is cheaper simply because you have less to throw away on the journey...

An even smarter way to do it would be to sell your car and buy Juan's car. You'd get all the benefits of the development and the goodies at a ridiculous, laughable fraction of the price of building it.

Me, I simply can't imagine when I'd ever get to use 500 HP.

I already drive around like the throttle is welded shut 99% of the time, and most of the time I do get to boost, I often feather the throttle and hold off a possible shift simply because the alternative is to be carrying another 30-40 MPH to scrub off when I arrive a few seconds earlier at the obstruction I can already see up ahead...
__________________
'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things.
Old 12-26-2007, 05:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Metal Guru
 
911nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,509
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by spuggy View Post


The EVO MS intake replaces the stock air box. It's reputed to provide some 13 HP across the entire range (according to Imagine Auto, IIRC) by removing vortices in the inlet flow. Lighter and lots more room in the engine bay, too.

.
Yes, but that's an air cleaner, essentially, correct?
__________________
Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 12-26-2007, 06:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,213
The 935 and 962 motors I've seen apart had polished titanium rods.
Old 12-26-2007, 07:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:49 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.