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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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When you speak of "engine quality" there are several different ways to look at that.

The Porsche 911 and more-so the 930 are neo-exotics. They are not Corvettes and equally they are not Ferraris. They fall into a unique niche of affordability and exclusivity. The fact that these cars can and often are daily drivers speaks volumes for quality and allows Porsche a stronghold on that niche. They are easily as reliable as a Corvette and (in my opinion) as desirable as a Ferrari. Every manufacturer has issues, Porsche is not immune.

Porsche is actually not the first manufacturer to use turbos on a production car, Chevy did that a decade earlier with the Corvair. Porsche is not the first to use VNT turbos with the 997tt, Chrysler did that 20 years ago with the Shadow.
What Porsche did/does do is include a LOT of racing technology in their road cars.

The 930 came to be simply as a homologation for racing. It was never meant to be sold in volume and was not designed for road manners. It is raw and demands respect. It has a reliable dry sump racing engine that can run flat out for hours on end. It has timeless sexy good looks spawned from the racetrack. It is expensive to maintain and modify, as all exotics are.
THAT is why we love them.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #41 (permalink)
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who else has 8 main bearings?
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
I guess it's a radical right wing conspiracy that they can't sell any of that GM and Ford crap ehhh?

Les
J.D. Power & Associates, yes, the same guys that have been telling you for 20 odd years that you should buy a Toyota because they're so good, are now saying Toyota has been surpassed by Ford. If they were impartial when they convinced you to buy a Toyota, what's the problem now? You can still get with the winners when you buy your Ford at your next purchase and then everyone will think your a smart guy who gets good value for his money.

I cite George W. and the worst example example of a guy, who when faced with the data (no WMD in Iraq, no partnership with Al Queda) decided that his opinion over-rode the facts, costing thousands of young American lives and billions of dollars (the above statement doesn't mean I'm voting for Hillary; actually I don't know WHO I'm voting for yet).

Now let's talk about Corvettes.
I've owned two; a 1976 coupe and a 1970 big block coupe, in that order. Driving a 911 SC convinced me to take the Porsche plunge and I've never looked back.
For what I paid for my Turbo I could have bought a new C6 convertible but I preferred the Turbo because Porsches are what "do it" for me.
The build quality of the Corvette is every bit as good as a Porsche. If anyone doubts this go to a Chevy dealer and check it out. I know some people who work on the Corvette and they are very proud of it for good reason; there is a lot of technology, both product and manufacturing, in those cars.
Here's a scoop: the 2012 Corvette will have a magnesium body, reducing vehicle weight by 37%.
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Old 01-03-2008, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911nut View Post
J.D. Power & Associates, yes, the same guys that have been telling you for 20 odd years that you should buy a Toyota because they're so good, are now saying Toyota has been surpassed by Ford. If they were impartial when they convinced you to buy a Toyota, what's the problem now? You can still get with the winners when you buy your Ford at your next purchase and then everyone will think your a smart guy who gets good value for his money.

I cite George W. and the worst example example of a guy, who when faced with the data (no WMD in Iraq, no partnership with Al Queda) decided that his opinion over-rode the facts, costing thousands of young American lives and billions of dollars (the above statement doesn't mean I'm voting for Hillary; actually I don't know WHO I'm voting for yet).

Now let's talk about Corvettes.
I've owned two; a 1976 coupe and a 1970 big block coupe, in that order. Driving a 911 SC convinced me to take the Porsche plunge and I've never looked back.
For what I paid for my Turbo I could have bought a new C6 convertible but I preferred the Turbo because Porsches are what "do it" for me.
The build quality of the Corvette is every bit as good as a Porsche. If anyone doubts this go to a Chevy dealer and check it out. I know some people who work on the Corvette and they are very proud of it for good reason; there is a lot of technology, both product and manufacturing, in those cars.
Here's a scoop: the 2012 Corvette will have a magnesium body, reducing vehicle weight by 37%.

Now we're talkin' You see, I've never read JD Powers for anything. I've used my own feel and common sense to figure out what car to buy, along with as many reviews as I could possibly read.

I guess you believe Motor trend too? If you can't drive a Ford and a Toyota and tell the difference? You are one of the guys who made the UAW what they are today. I know where there is a secret cache of Chrysler K-Cars I can turn you onto also, just don't tell anybody else I let you onto it!

Those folks in Michigan should have seen the writing on the wall around 1970 when Datsun and Toyota started making cars that mechanically started to challenge them. They've had almost 40 years to stem the tide. Now these Ostriches suddenly wake up and wonder who plucked all their feathers.

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 01-03-2008, 03:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #44 (permalink)
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All manufactures have their faulty engineering , all of them . Some manufactures are just better at smoozing their customers. (Customer satisfaction index) The manufactures that fight throwing parts on are the ones with the lowest scores.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #45 (permalink)
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oh ya the reason why Ford jumped ahead of Toyota is they changed the way its scored, and i think Porsche was at the top of the heap for the last 2yrs
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by h20cooled7 View Post
oh ya the reason why Ford jumped ahead of Toyota is they changed the way its scored, and i think Porsche was at the top of the heap for the last 2yrs
Please explain this scoring change in detail.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911nut View Post
Please explain this scoring change in detail.
Hi Nut,
So let me get this straight.

You think that the Japanese were able to come to this country and make these huge inroads into the market by bringing us an inferior Car that basically costs more on the average than American vehicles? All this considering how Americans have always felt it was Un-American to buy Foreign automobiles.

How do you account for this strange success story? Are Americans fatalistic and self destructive in reference to their economy?

And you think Ford and GM have managed to change everything overnight for all practical purposes? You think they have pulled off the Cinderella comeback story of the last two Millennia?

By the way, do you live in Flint? Does your Dad work for GM?

Personally, I think it is Unpatriotic and UnAmerican to support piss poor companies. If they can't compete, let them go out of business and be purchased by a re-org company that will rectify the last 50 years of screw-ups they've made, that would be a comeback.

There is no doubt that we can make the finest products in the world. We don't though for the most part. We could make the best cars, but GM, Ford, et al, will have to dissolve into the wind before that will happen.

Oh, I forgot, Americans do make great cars. I forgot about the plethora of Nissan, Toyota, Honda, et al Plants in the USA!

I got a observation for ya. They are coming after the 1/4 1/2 3/4 ton truck market, quick call your Dad in Detroit and warn him! I don't think they get any Network or cable news in the Entire freakin' state of Michigan. I don't even think they have Newspapers up there. Let's see what the small truck market looks like in the next 5 years?

I won't even mention the medium size truck market and what they have already accomplished there.

How do you account for their success?

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT

Last edited by les_garten; 01-04-2008 at 08:04 AM..
Old 01-03-2008, 07:22 PM
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I think American auto companies can make the finest cars in the world…IF they choose to.
With that said, Detroit has conditioned the US population into thinking they need to buy a new auto every 4 years.

So 4 x 12k/year = 48k miles and the cars are scrape at this point!
Sure there are freaks of nature US cars that can make it to many miles past this, but the point is, why should Detroit make them last any longer than 50K miles??

The last US car I owned was a Ford Taurus Wagon in 91, at 49k miles it left me stranded atop the Grapevine with a scattered tranny.
I will never forget the mech at Valencia where the car was towed to when he said “Jeez, your at 50k pal” huh...WTF

Sorry to say this, I quit buying US iron at that point when I couldn’t get a transmission to last past 50k miles, this includes (Chevy, Ford and Buick)
My son’s 99 Honda Accord V6 has 198k miles with only an alternator change on it!

One exception I will make is Ford trucks, they are tuff SOB’s
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Old 01-03-2008, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cl8ton View Post
I think American auto companies can make the finest cars in the world…IF they choose to.
With that said, Detroit has conditioned the US population into thinking they need to buy a new auto every 4 years.

So 4 x 12k/year = 48k miles and the cars are scrape at this point!
Sure there are freaks of nature US cars that can make it to many miles past this, but the point is, why should Detroit make them last any longer than 50K miles??

The last US car I owned was a Ford Taurus Wagon in 91, at 49k miles it left me stranded atop the Grapevine with a scattered tranny.
I will never forget the mech at Valencia where the car was towed to when he said “Jeez, your at 50k pal” huh...WTF

Sorry to say this, I quit buying US iron at that point when I couldn’t get a transmission to last past 50k miles, this includes (Chevy, Ford and Buick)
My son’s 99 Honda Accord V6 has 198k miles with only an alternator change on it!

One exception I will make is Ford trucks, they are tuff SOB’s
Exactly,
I put 40K in my first year on my Toyota. That was a banner year. It has 112K on it now, and I can't tell any difference from the day I bought it 6 years ago. It doesn't squeak, rattle, or do anything else that would suggest it is not new.

What have I done?

Changed the oil every 3-5K w/Mobil 1

Front and rear brake pads and rotors that were turned.

Transmission oil change at 60K

Plugs at 80K

Hmm, I don't think I ever changed the air filter. Looks like a huge project for this weekend!

Ohh, and I bought some fuel for it! If they could only fix that problem!!

I am planning the Timing belt change.

I've had other Toy's that did the same thing. Enough to call it a trend between me and my wife. They just work. What American cars do this type of Duty? Does my Toy have the "SOUL" of a Porsche, NO WAY!

I would have a Z06 though! I could park it next to my 930 and sneak in late at night and watch them snarl at each other!

Ohh, and THEY ARE COMING AFTER THE FORD AND CHEVY TRUCK MARKET.

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 01-03-2008, 08:26 PM
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I gotta chime in here too I suppose...I am a total passionist when it comes to cars, love a variety of them for their unique personalities. I am fortunate enough to own (2) old Mopar's that are pure Detroit muscle and are wonderful in many ways and have just as many flaws too. I also own the "chebby small block" LOL being a newer Z06, again, wonderful car in many ways with flaws too albeit, not as many.
I've always wanted a Porsche, always respected them and like many others....drooled over them growing up as they are so unique and let's face it...Mean looking. I have a 91' Turbo and I am too planning a pretty extreme rebuild and began scratching my head when adding up the costs but I must say this and please believe me my statement is not biased b/c I am on this forum...My Porsche is by far my favorite car, by far the most fun to drive as it is purely raw and I feel every time I run down a twisty back road I am part of the car (weird...)
As for build quality, in my mind NO COMPARISON....Cheby did a great job and I commend them for the Z06 however the quality is not comparable, 17K miles now on her now and the squeaks and rattles are a coming!! My car is 16 years old and the interior functions like new, no squeaks, rattles..Steering is precise and crisp...Brakes are untouchable. Paint quality is unbelieveable if You know how to properly detail/buff paint and the overall fit and finish of the body parts/lines are second to none in my garage. As for the motor? In my opinion it's a work of art, My god it's a modestly displaced flat-6 and it's aircooled to start, factory Dry-sump (very cool) along with many other race-inspired ideas built into these motors. Ending my rant, I would have to strongly side on Porsche overall being a Top-quality build in both engineering and durability and just like any other car out there (Subaru, Toyota, Mitsu...etc) If You want to start pushing the envelope on power like most do, the weak links must be addresses on every car including Porsches, all part of the game.
Old 01-04-2008, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barracuda View Post
I gotta chime in here too I suppose...I am a total passionist when it comes to cars, love a variety of them for their unique personalities. I am fortunate enough to own (2) old Mopar's that are pure Detroit muscle and are wonderful in many ways and have just as many flaws too. I also own the "chebby small block" LOL being a newer Z06, again, wonderful car in many ways with flaws too albeit, not as many.
I've always wanted a Porsche, always respected them and like many others....drooled over them growing up as they are so unique and let's face it...Mean looking. I have a 91' Turbo and I am too planning a pretty extreme rebuild and began scratching my head when adding up the costs but I must say this and please believe me my statement is not biased b/c I am on this forum...My Porsche is by far my favorite car, by far the most fun to drive as it is purely raw and I feel every time I run down a twisty back road I am part of the car (weird...)
As for build quality, in my mind NO COMPARISON....Cheby did a great job and I commend them for the Z06 however the quality is not comparable, 17K miles now on her now and the squeaks and rattles are a coming!! My car is 16 years old and the interior functions like new, no squeaks, rattles..Steering is precise and crisp...Brakes are untouchable. Paint quality is unbelieveable if You know how to properly detail/buff paint and the overall fit and finish of the body parts/lines are second to none in my garage. As for the motor? In my opinion it's a work of art, My god it's a modestly displaced flat-6 and it's aircooled to start, factory Dry-sump (very cool) along with many other race-inspired ideas built into these motors. Ending my rant, I would have to strongly side on Porsche overall being a Top-quality build in both engineering and durability and just like any other car out there (Subaru, Toyota, Mitsu...etc) If You want to start pushing the envelope on power like most do, the weak links must be addresses on every car including Porsches, all part of the game.
+1

You buy a Corvette just like you buy a Ferrari, it's the Body(Style). Certainly not the QC or reliability. Not meaning to offend any Ferrari owners though!

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 01-04-2008, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barracuda View Post
I gotta chime in here too I suppose...I am a total passionist when it comes to cars, love a variety of them for their unique personalities. I am fortunate enough to own (2) old Mopar's that are pure Detroit muscle and are wonderful in many ways and have just as many flaws too. I also own the "chebby small block" LOL being a newer Z06, again, wonderful car in many ways with flaws too albeit, not as many.
I've always wanted a Porsche, always respected them and like many others....drooled over them growing up as they are so unique and let's face it...Mean looking. I have a 91' Turbo and I am too planning a pretty extreme rebuild and began scratching my head when adding up the costs but I must say this and please believe me my statement is not biased b/c I am on this forum...My Porsche is by far my favorite car, by far the most fun to drive as it is purely raw and I feel every time I run down a twisty back road I am part of the car (weird...)
As for build quality, in my mind NO COMPARISON....Cheby did a great job and I commend them for the Z06 however the quality is not comparable, 17K miles now on her now and the squeaks and rattles are a coming!! My car is 16 years old and the interior functions like new, no squeaks, rattles..Steering is precise and crisp...Brakes are untouchable. Paint quality is unbelieveable if You know how to properly detail/buff paint and the overall fit and finish of the body parts/lines are second to none in my garage. As for the motor? In my opinion it's a work of art, My god it's a modestly displaced flat-6 and it's aircooled to start, factory Dry-sump (very cool) along with many other race-inspired ideas built into these motors. Ending my rant, I would have to strongly side on Porsche overall being a Top-quality build in both engineering and durability and just like any other car out there (Subaru, Toyota, Mitsu...etc) If You want to start pushing the envelope on power like most do, the weak links must be addresses on every car including Porsches, all part of the game.
I would like to comment on what you said about being part of the 930 when you drive it. That has always seperated 911s from other cars to me. I have had muscle cars that lite up the rear tires at any given moment or gave you whiplash from a stoplight. Those cars never felt anything like my 930 on a back country road, in fact I have grown to actually dislike the spinning tires everywhere thing. Muscle cars all feel like the rear will kick out to me, in fact some 40% of Z06 owners apparently end up crashing their cars at low speeds because the rear lites up so easily. That is a reported fact, not something I made up. GM is concerned enough to consider forcing Z06 owners to take a Driver Ed course when buying the car.

When I mention that I can't imagine going any faster on a backroad than in my 930, people even at this board say stuff like 'oh, a modern Nissan Z would be faster' or 'oh, this car or that car with a modern suspension would be faster'. I just don't buy it. I can just drive the Porsche faster than any other car I am aware of on country roads. I don't care what has come along since, the Porsche is just fast on regular roads. At the track, all the limits of the 930 design will show up a lot quicker but at lower limits on the street the 930 is the weapon of choice for me.

The car just feels telepathic. It does what I want. It feels good.
Old 01-04-2008, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
in fact some 40% of Z06 owners apparently end up crashing their cars at low speeds because the rear lites up so easily. That is a reported fact, not something I made up. GM is concerned enough to consider forcing Z06 owners to take a Driver Ed course when buying the car
heh, heh....That is kind of the fun part of the Z06, at least for me...mine is an 03' and it is kind of fun blowing the hides off punching it at 35mph...kid in me I guess LOL....as for the country road feel though, no comparison for me...The Vette is too refined.
Old 01-04-2008, 11:24 AM
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Any truth to the fact that %80 of all Vettes sold have Auto Transmissions ?
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Old 01-04-2008, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barracuda View Post
heh, heh....That is kind of the fun part of the Z06, at least for me...mine is an 03' and it is kind of fun blowing the hides off punching it at 35mph...kid in me I guess LOL....as for the country road feel though, no comparison for me...The Vette is too refined.
Exactly, sounds like Fun!

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 01-04-2008, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by cl8ton View Post
Any truth to the fact that %80 of all Vettes sold have Auto Transmissions ?

I believe it. Everybody I know that has one since about 1984 got an auto, and I would also. Older than '84, Like a '67 definitely a manual.

les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 01-04-2008, 11:41 AM
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THEY ARE COMING AFTER THE FORD AND CHEVY TRUCK MARKET.
Les
Here's a news flash: They're here and getting an a$$ kickin'.
Toyota missed their sales target on the Tundra in 2007. They are rebating the trucks to move them out.
Nissan's Titan, well, it's doing even worse.
With the big trucks what your seeing is a domestic auto industry that learned it's lessons and was prepared for an attempt on the market by Toyota and Nissan.
We can all talk about cars we've owned that have gone around the world without even as much as a washing and cars that stranded us. The important part of Cl8yton's story was that it occured 17 years ago. A lot has changed since then. My 1996 Taurus wagon went 150k miles with customary maintenance and is still running around these parts. Since then I lease my cars; I pick them up at the dealer and they never go back for anything other than an oil change, which is pretty much what your saying about your Toyotas.
Les, when's the last time you owned a American car? If it's been a while then you have no information on which to make a value judgment, saying that Ford, GM and Chrysler are piss poor companies.
You imply that this improvement in quality was sudden, as if the numbers were fudged. This has been in the works for years and been gaining momentum since 2000. I wouldn't expect anyone that didn't work in the business to know that but everyone "gets it" about quality and this is the result.
Maybe it's time that you went and checked out a Ford or GM product. They'll even let you drive one if you want. You don't even have to tell anyone that you did it. It can be your secret.
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Old 01-04-2008, 03:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #58 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Golden State
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911nut View Post
Here's a news flash: They're here and getting an a$$ kickin'
Recent news said Toyota just overtook Ford as the #2 in US cars sales and will surpass GM this year as the #1

Yes my problem was years ago, but I still have friends that buy Detroit iron.
Quality is better I will admit but not is not enough IMO.

I like to keep cars longer than 4 years where my friends are trading them in before they hit that 50k mile sweat spot.

Driving with a friend last year in his brand new top-o-line Tahoe with every option and at a stoplight, engine dies.
Seems the electric seat severed some important wires and everything locked! Steering wheel everything, tow truck driver
couldn’t even load it, had to have a Ford mech come out.

Happened several more times before he had it declared a lemon under “CA Lemon Law”, he drives a Toyota Sequoia now.

I really hate to bag on US automakers, but dammit, get it right Detroit! You have the ability to do so!

Good luck with your Taurus! I sold mine to some poor shmo right after the tran was replaced.
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Old 01-04-2008, 03:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #59 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911nut View Post
Here's a news flash: They're here and getting an a$$ kickin'.
Toyota missed their sales target on the Tundra in 2007. They are rebating the trucks to move them out.
Nissan's Titan, well, it's doing even worse.
With the big trucks what your seeing is a domestic auto industry that learned it's lessons and was prepared for an attempt on the market by Toyota and Nissan.
We can all talk about cars we've owned that have gone around the world without even as much as a washing and cars that stranded us. The important part of Cl8yton's story was that it occured 17 years ago. A lot has changed since then. My 1996 Taurus wagon went 150k miles with customary maintenance and is still running around these parts. Since then I lease my cars; I pick them up at the dealer and they never go back for anything other than an oil change, which is pretty much what your saying about your Toyotas.
Les, when's the last time you owned a American car? If it's been a while then you have no information on which to make a value judgment, saying that Ford, GM and Chrysler are piss poor companies.
You imply that this improvement in quality was sudden, as if the numbers were fudged. This has been in the works for years and been gaining momentum since 2000. I wouldn't expect anyone that didn't work in the business to know that but everyone "gets it" about quality and this is the result.
Maybe it's time that you went and checked out a Ford or GM product. They'll even let you drive one if you want. You don't even have to tell anyone that you did it. It can be your secret.
Hi Nut,
Detroit is listening to people like you, have been forever. There is certainly a sector of the population that will always buy American. That sector is clearly diminishing and has been for a long time. Even the die hard Ostriches have been deciding they are tired of getting screwed by Detroit. I have only owned one American car in my life. You see, I igured out in the 60's that American Cars were crap.

However, I have been assigned Comapany cars to me and managed Fleets of American Vehicles for my Employees. I fly a lot and I rent a lot of cars, all American. So there you have it.

But don't take my experience for anything. You DID not answer the questions I posed in the Last post. How do you account for the Asian cars doing so well. They invaded our shores and are displacing the Incumbent Car Companies. Riddle me that? We are a Country that has been very Ethno-Centric, and they came here and whipped our ass in a Market that we owned.

Go ahead, stick your head in the sand about the truck market. that's what Detroit is doing. Trust me, they'll lose that share also. It is inevitable because of how ASIA and the US conducts their business. I don't wish American Auto comapnies to fail, they just are. AND IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT.

I'll bet the Asian auto guys love Top Gun. They probaly have this motto on their work floors.

"You need to be doing it cleaner and better than the other guy"

WE DON'T DO THAT. If Detroit is not in DEFCON I mode by now, they are even stupider than they have demonstrated they are. The UAW will most certainly be the undoing of the American Auto Industry. IT IS INEVITABLE.

Les
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Old 01-04-2008, 03:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #60 (permalink)
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