Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Jerry S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Way up North
Posts: 539
Garage
Porsche engine quality

Do you guys ever get down on the quality of the 911 or 930 engines?

At first glance it appears that these engines are a masterpiece but during my last valve adjustment I realised that they are in some ways inferior to other high performance engines.

1> These engines can not tolerate high boost as some Japanese counterparts can such as 3000GT or Supra TT.

2> They have a tendency to stretch or break head studs over time or hard use.

3> Compression leaks are fairly common on turbo cars if run hard as well.




Dont get me wrong, I think these 930's are great cars and I love mine but I have also grown to "see" the alternatives and the weak points of these cars.
__________________
Mark

TURBO = Free Power
Old 12-30-2007, 03:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Innocent Bystander
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Decatur, Al / Goodyear, AZ
Posts: 211
Garage
Jerry, better get your flame suit ready! But I'd have to agree. I recently purchased a 79 RoW 930 in good mechanical condition. I had always wanted one. Being no stranger to mechanical devices, having done several groung-up musclecar restorations, including extensive engine, transmission, and suspension rebuilds/modifications, it soon became aparent that the quality of these cars was not what I had assumed it to be. Then after joining this forum and reading about the troubles of others, it confirmed it. But like you, I still love my little turbo, and will keep it forever, no matter how badly it wants to self destruct.
Old 12-30-2007, 03:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
E-85 sippin drunk
 
turbobrat930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 1,506
Mark, you need to compare apples to apples....

We have air cooled motors... Jap and other cars are watercooled.... much easier to run high boost and keep the temps under control with water cooling than air....

The problem you mentioned with the studs pulling, breaking, or streaching is the stock stuff.... put some ARP, Racewares, SUpertechs, etc....and I bet that problem will go away.... Also remember, we are holding cyl and heads together with the studs... not just the head down ( as in Jap cars)

and three.... I think that if you build it right..this would also not be a problem ( compression leaks)

The only thing that I get pissed off about is how much the parts, etc cost!!! I have a TON of money into my build.. if I were to have spent that money on an american v-8...or a jap car, I would have easily double the HP..... But if that was the case... I still would not have a Porsche... its all in what you want....
__________________
Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 12-30-2007, 03:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,527
Garage
Compare the quality of a 1978 930 engine to anything else built in 1978.
If you have ever personally rebuilt one of these engines you will see the intricate parts and design that allow every engine produced to run at 80+% of redline for 24hrs straight. I don't think a 1978 Corvette would do that.

Fast forward to the present and the 930 is a dinosaur struggling to keep up. It is amiazing that they actually can still keep up, aircooled limitations and all. Don't sell your car short.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 12-30-2007, 04:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Metal Guru
 
911nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,511
Garage
There are stories of SC engines that go 250 K miles without a rebuild.
The reason it's so expensive to get large HP gains out of our engines is because the factory took them almost all the way as part of the design. You can't say that about any other production car.
__________________
Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 12-30-2007, 04:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jerry S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Way up North
Posts: 539
Garage
I think they are great cars with great mechanics but i think they are much more rugged in the normally aspirated form.
__________________
Mark

TURBO = Free Power
Old 12-30-2007, 04:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jerry S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Way up North
Posts: 539
Garage
The twin turbo RX7 is another example of a dainty yet highly efficient motor.
__________________
Mark

TURBO = Free Power
Old 12-30-2007, 05:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry S View Post
The twin turbo RX7 is another example of a dainty yet highly efficient motor.
Talk about motors blowing up? My buddy's TT RX7 (stock) is no its 3rd motor with 100000 miles on the clock

I had a Mist. 3000GT VR4. what a piece of junk. I hated that car. I really like the smaller sports car out of Japan llike the S2000 or early MR2. You can really run em' into the ground.

The thing is, none of them drive like a Porsche or 911. Something about the way they drive.
Old 12-30-2007, 06:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jerry S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Way up North
Posts: 539
Garage
True enough, the older Porsches have "it" and this experience is not available anywhere this side of a Ferrari or Lamborghini
__________________
Mark

TURBO = Free Power
Old 12-30-2007, 06:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
E-85 sippin drunk
 
turbobrat930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 1,506
+1 totally agree....
__________________
Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 12-30-2007, 06:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Macht Schnell
 
les_garten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry S View Post
Do you guys ever get down on the quality of the 911 or 930 engines?

At first glance it appears that these engines are a masterpiece but during my last valve adjustment I realised that they are in some ways inferior to other high performance engines.

1> These engines can not tolerate high boost as some Japanese counterparts can such as 3000GT or Supra TT.

2> They have a tendency to stretch or break head studs over time or hard use.

3> Compression leaks are fairly common on turbo cars if run hard as well.




Dont get me wrong, I think these 930's are great cars and I love mine but I have also grown to "see" the alternatives and the weak points of these cars.
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry!
My have you dug yourself a hole!

Take a 930 and compare it to it's contemporaries in Performance and see how they stack up.

Make sure you look at the whole picture. The Braking ability of the 930 made a hell of a difference amongst it's competition.

I also am always amazed at how my car rides if I am moving at speed. I've had Corvettes and Trans Ams and am always amazed at how well a 930 handles the road irregularities compared to it's competition. I can run over a Volkswagen at 110 mph and barely feel it.

I'm not sure what a valve adjustment did to you, the 930 is like every other valve adjustment I've done.

There have been some Head stud issues, Porsche is guilty as charged here. Some Jap Engines have had their issues as well, such as the Datsun 240, 260, 280Z's propensity to have head gasket failures at cylinder 3:4.

The Japanese are awesome at learning what you do well, copying your design, figuring out your weaknesses, and improving the design to compensate for those weaknesses. Look what they have done with Lexus, Nissan, and Toyota.

The problem, they haven't had a ton of original thought.

What have they not been able to copy? The feeling of driving a Porsche, Maserati, Ferrari, or Lamborghini. The sounds, the smell, and the feel.

I'm not saying Porsche is perfect, they are a small company. That has it's plusses and minuses. They are also German, that has it's Plusses and Minuses as well.

Let me ask you this, are you thinking about buying a Subaru, a Mitsubishi, a Toyota?

"Porsche, there is no substitute" Joel Goodson ca. 1983

The rest of that JAP crap is Interchangeable.

I just spent the better part of a day getting some custom Zork work done on my 930. While I was there, I noticed a Nissan Altima with a 4" ID SS Muffler sticking out the back. I'm going back next week, let me know if you are interested in it, and I'll hook you up!

If you don't know why you bought a Porsche, Quick, sell your car, you will only be unhappier from this point on. Toyota, Honda, Subaru, and Mitsubishi are beckoning and are starting to enter your sleep cycles.

When you figure all this out, call Jay Leno and tell him to get rid of those freakin' Dusenberg's too for the same reason!!

Les
__________________
---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 12-30-2007, 08:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jerry S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Way up North
Posts: 539
Garage
Whoa whoa there Les,

I bought a porsche, actually it is my third, because I believe that there truly are few good alternatives, certainly none of which are Japanese in the way of driving dynamics and excitement. The revelation merely came while performing a valve adjustment but not the adjustment itself. It reminded me of the head stud check procedure with the covers off.

Cheese wagons are not my forte and I can not think of driving a more exciting car aside from maybe a GT2, F430 or gallardo spider if I could afford them.

What I am merely saying is that the limitations and weakpoints often add up to huge bucks with a Porsche as i discovered a couple of years back. Even if you blew the heads clear up to kingdom off of the block of, oh say, skyline or supra a proper repair bill would be very fractional to that of a 930.
__________________
Mark

TURBO = Free Power
Old 12-30-2007, 08:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jerry S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Way up North
Posts: 539
Garage
What is impressive is how the factory kept some of the 934 / 935 engines together at 1.2 or 1.4 bar of boost.
__________________
Mark

TURBO = Free Power
Old 12-30-2007, 08:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Macht Schnell
 
les_garten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry S View Post
Whoa whoa there Les,

I bought a porsche, actually it is my third, because I believe that there truly are few good alternatives, certainly none of which are Japanese in the way of driving dynamics and excitement. The revelation merely came while performing a valve adjustment but not the adjustment itself. It reminded me of the head stud check procedure with the covers off.

Cheese wagons are not my forte and I can not think of driving a more exciting car aside from maybe a GT2, F430 or gallardo spider if I could afford them.

What I am merely saying is that the limitations and weakpoints often add up to huge bucks with a Porsche as i discovered a couple of years back. Even if you blew the heads clear up to kingdom off of the block of, oh say, skyline or supra a proper repair bill would be very fractional to that of a 930.

Heh, I hear ya!

However, kinda like a Rolex vs Timex comparison. Rolex parts cost more. Rolex Labor rates cost more. But you know, you can still get Rolex parts from the Factory ad infinitum. Your Timex is a "throw away". Porsche parts are expensive no doubt. We've all felt THAT pain. They are high quality though. They may not last forever, but I wouldn't compare a Timex to a Rolex in quality. I'm using Rolex here because Porsche and Rolex are commensurate. Neither of them are at the apex of their respective sphere's. They are both serious journeyman instruments however. Take somewhat of my last post as "tongue in cheek" , I was just hackin' on ya a little.

Les
__________________
---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 12-30-2007, 09:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jerry S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Way up North
Posts: 539
Garage
new intercooler and high quality headers with heat for the same price as complete corvette crate engine
__________________
Mark

TURBO = Free Power
Old 12-30-2007, 09:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
Some Jap Engines have had their issues as well, such as the Datsun 240, 260, 280Z's propensity to have head gasket failures at cylinder 3:4.

The Japanese are awesome at learning what you do well, copying your design, figuring out your weaknesses, and improving the design to compensate for those weaknesses. Look what they have done with Lexus, Nissan, and Toyota.

The problem, they haven't had a ton of original thought.

What have they not been able to copy? The feeling of driving a Porsche, Maserati, Ferrari, or Lamborghini. The sounds, the smell, and the feel.

Let me ask you this, are you thinking about buying a Subaru, a Mitsubishi, a Toyota?


The rest of that JAP crap is Interchangeable.

I just spent the better part of a day getting some custom Zork work done on my 930. While I was there, I noticed a Nissan Altima with a 4" ID SS Muffler sticking out the back. I'm going back next week, let me know if you are interested in it, and I'll hook you up!

If you don't know why you bought a Porsche, Quick, sell your car, you will only be unhappier from this point on. Toyota, Honda, Subaru, and Mitsubishi are beckoning and are starting to enter your sleep cycles.

When you figure all this out, call Jay Leno and tell him to get rid of those freakin' Dusenberg's too for the same reason!!

Les
I am shocked at how shallow your post is Les.
Oh well....everyone has an opinion regardless the degree of ridicule.

Yasin
__________________
Ole Skool - wouldn't have it any other way
Old 12-30-2007, 10:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
7.0:1 > 11.3:1
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,865
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry S View Post
new intercooler and high quality headers with heat for the same price as complete corvette crate engine
Like my fridge, a vette engine will probably need replacing in ten years.

Unlike my friend with a vette, I don't have to collect my harmonic balancer from the side of the road.
Old 12-30-2007, 10:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jerry S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Way up North
Posts: 539
Garage
Hey there Jim2,

Your place in the photos look familiar. I am from Edmonton and I purchased a zinc metallic 930 from a fellow named Jim in Calgary about a half dozen years ago. Wondering if that is you. By the way, the car has been fun. I have, since ownership, had engine sealed and rebuilt, and made a couple of changes.
__________________
Mark

TURBO = Free Power
Old 12-30-2007, 11:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jerry S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Way up North
Posts: 539
Garage
Sorry again Jim2,

I read your personal profile and I see you made comment to your last 930 which you purchased from Vancouver.

Since then I totally rebuilt and resealed the engine including split case.

All new bearings
All new gaskets
Polished crank
SC cams
K27
New Pistons/Cylinders (Old ones were compromised)
Rebuilt heads with all New exhaust valves and all new guides


My mechanic wanted to offer some engine warranty so we agreed to disbable the adjustable boost.

I also had the c2 wheels polished by a body shop as well as the rocker panels repainted locally.

I have installed a Garretson intercooler
Currently in process of fitting a 930S lower valence and
Purchased new B & B Headers which have yet to be installed.
__________________
Mark

TURBO = Free Power
Old 12-30-2007, 11:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Metal Guru
 
911nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,511
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
The Japanese are awesome at learning what you do well, copying your design, figuring out your weaknesses, and improving the design to compensate for those weaknesses. Look what they have done with Lexus, Nissan, and Toyota.

The problem, they haven't had a ton of original thought.
Well, Toyota ain't so good at it anymore as Ford and GM have surpassed them in quality. Nissan was never very good ever.
As for the original thought, I have to deal with Mazda-designed stuff in my job and it sucks big time. Overly complex and band-aids stuck upon band-aids.
__________________
Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 12-31-2007, 05:08 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:27 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.