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-   -   Triple Turbo installation (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/387602-triple-turbo-installation.html)

copbait73 01-15-2008 06:04 PM

Triple Turbo installation
 
Have you guys considered/discussed the merits of installing three turbos on a 930?
If I was not mistaken, I saw a pro 911 drifter with custom three turbo system producing 600 HP.

WydRyd 01-15-2008 07:04 PM

THREE? Heck, why not just slap four on for good measure? What about 1 for each cylinder for even more power? LMAO!!!

Triple turbo's just wouldn't work on a 911/930 motor due to the layout of the engine. I've seen them on Supra's (two cylinders per turbo). They run tiny little turbo's, like T25's or something.

Look here - what a plumbing nightmare! :eek:

Twin turbo's work best on the good 'ol flat 6 motor. There's a good reason why Porsche only build them with twin turbo's now :cool:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1200454512.jpg

RarlyL8 01-15-2008 07:47 PM

Actually modern technology has allowed a single turbo to be more powerful and efficient than twin turbos in most applications. There is an elegance and ballsy mantra to having twins on a 911tt. If I were to guess, the reason Porsche did that has more to do with emissions and packaging than power or driveability.
I can see no advantage for triple turbos on a 930.

OSI930 01-15-2008 08:19 PM

I met the builder of the Hankook tires 993 drift car at SEMA this year. The car was there as well. It is in fact, a twin turbo, not a triple turbo as stated on I believe, Redline TV. The builder was very impressed with the engine construction as received from Porsche.

BoxxerSix 01-15-2008 08:53 PM

Triple turbos can work on a boxer engine, to what extent of performance I cannot say.

I can say that the owner of JIC Majic owns a 993 GT2 with a triple turbo setup feeding individual throttle bodies. About 600 hp. Setup for drift racing. It's white and black.

Way beyond reasoning though in my opinion and just a waste of money/time.

WydRyd 01-15-2008 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxxerSix (Post 3707222)
I can say that the owner of JIC Majic owns a 993 GT2 with a triple turbo setup feeding individual throttle bodies. About 600 hp. Setup for drift racing. It's white and black.

It's actually a twin turbo, not triple turbo! Read below...

Hankook Tire America Corp., manufacturer of ultra high-performance passenger, light-medium and heavy-truck radial tires, today announces its sponsorship of the first U.S. Drifting Porsche. The specially built, custom 993 GT2 Porsche, designed and manufactured by JIC USA / CROSS North America, made its official debut in the Hankook Tire exhibit at the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) Show October 31, 2006.

“This is the world’s first Porsche to be purpose-built for drifting,” said Bill Bainbridge, marketing director, Hankook Tire America Corp. “While the sport of drifting is clearly one of the fastest growing forms of motorsports in the U.S. today. With cars sliding sideways at high speed through a marked course, always on the edge, it’s spectacular to watch, and we think the Porsche equipped with Hankook Ventus ultra-high performance tires will deliver a whole new dimension of excitement and performance.”

The Hankook Tires/JIC Magic Porsche’s awesome performance comes from a 3.8-liter, 6-cylinder fully built race engine rated at 600+ hp and equipped with twin IHI turbos, six individual throttle bodies and custom exhaust and manifolds by JIC. It is specially designed with a 993 GT EVO body.

Maximum handling capabilities are provided by Drift-spec JIC /CROSS competition race coil-over shocks, and custom JIC/CROSS suspension arms and rods. Optimum road-holding and grip is courtesy of Hankook Z212 Ventus Drift tires. Inside, a GT2 factory roll cage surrounds a COBRA Imola Racing seat and COBRA Suzuka Racing seat, provided by Sube Sports, and a selection of custom gauges. The entire package is wrapped in a custom Pearl White paint by DTM Autobody and highlighted with special Hankook Tire graphics by 5th Dimension Sign Works. The Hankook Tires/JIC Magic Porsche drift team will compete in the 2007 Need for Speed: Formula Drift Series, which is scheduled to begin the first week in April 2007 at Long Beach, Calif. The Hankook Tires/JIC Magic Porsche may compete or participate in demonstration events in other series as well, though its primary focus will be Formula Drift. Drivers include Kenji Yamanaka of Yokohama, Japan and Tyler McQuarrie of California.

“We are pleased to be sponsoring this remarkable drift racer,” said Bainbridge. “The collaborative decision with JIC USA to enter the first Porsche in Formula Drift will bring another new element to the sport. This car will be unique and quite competitive.”


930gt-40r 01-15-2008 11:05 PM

That Hankook car is absolutly amazing and shows what monsters these cars really can be when you grow a pair and are not afraid to modify. I wish my car sounded like that.

ZLP 01-16-2008 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WydRyd (Post 3706994)
THREE? Heck, why not just slap four on for good measure? What about 1 for each cylinder for even more power? LMAO!!!

Triple turbo's just wouldn't work on a 911/930 motor due to the layout of the engine. I've seen them on Supra's (two cylinders per turbo). They run tiny little turbo's, like T25's or something.

Look here - what a plumbing nightmare! :eek:

Twin turbo's work best on the good 'ol flat 6 motor. There's a good reason why Porsche only build them with twin turbo's now :cool:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1200454512.jpg

I've ridden in and know that car quite well. Never ran right though... I wonder why ;)

BoxxerSix 01-16-2008 11:32 AM

:) Shows you can't always trust what's on TV hah!. My apologies on that misinformation. Still one disgustingly capable porsche in it's racing(drift) class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WydRyd (Post 3707271)
It's actually a twin turbo, not triple turbo! Read below...

Hankook Tire America Corp., manufacturer of ultra high-performance passenger, light-medium and heavy-truck radial tires, today announces its sponsorship of the first U.S. Drifting Porsche. The specially built, custom 993 GT2 Porsche, designed and manufactured by JIC USA / CROSS North America, made its official debut in the Hankook Tire exhibit at the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) Show October 31, 2006.

“This is the world’s first Porsche to be purpose-built for drifting,” said Bill Bainbridge, marketing director, Hankook Tire America Corp. “While the sport of drifting is clearly one of the fastest growing forms of motorsports in the U.S. today. With cars sliding sideways at high speed through a marked course, always on the edge, it’s spectacular to watch, and we think the Porsche equipped with Hankook Ventus ultra-high performance tires will deliver a whole new dimension of excitement and performance.”

The Hankook Tires/JIC Magic Porsche’s awesome performance comes from a 3.8-liter, 6-cylinder fully built race engine rated at 600+ hp and equipped with twin IHI turbos, six individual throttle bodies and custom exhaust and manifolds by JIC. It is specially designed with a 993 GT EVO body.

Maximum handling capabilities are provided by Drift-spec JIC /CROSS competition race coil-over shocks, and custom JIC/CROSS suspension arms and rods. Optimum road-holding and grip is courtesy of Hankook Z212 Ventus Drift tires. Inside, a GT2 factory roll cage surrounds a COBRA Imola Racing seat and COBRA Suzuka Racing seat, provided by Sube Sports, and a selection of custom gauges. The entire package is wrapped in a custom Pearl White paint by DTM Autobody and highlighted with special Hankook Tire graphics by 5th Dimension Sign Works. The Hankook Tires/JIC Magic Porsche drift team will compete in the 2007 Need for Speed: Formula Drift Series, which is scheduled to begin the first week in April 2007 at Long Beach, Calif. The Hankook Tires/JIC Magic Porsche may compete or participate in demonstration events in other series as well, though its primary focus will be Formula Drift. Drivers include Kenji Yamanaka of Yokohama, Japan and Tyler McQuarrie of California.

“We are pleased to be sponsoring this remarkable drift racer,” said Bainbridge. “The collaborative decision with JIC USA to enter the first Porsche in Formula Drift will bring another new element to the sport. This car will be unique and quite competitive.”



Craig 930 RS 01-16-2008 11:52 AM

Wonder if anyone has 2 turbos on a CIS engine.........seriously.

RarlyL8 01-16-2008 01:32 PM

Quote:

Wonder if anyone has 2 turbos on a CIS engine.........seriously.
It has been done before, I plan to add a few improvements on my version.

copbait73 01-16-2008 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS (Post 3708138)
Wonder if anyone has 2 turbos on a CIS engine.........seriously.

Are you asking on a project basis? I installed twin Garrett T25s on a '81SC motor going on 20 years ago. I'm sure there have been tens of twin turbo Porsche installations over the years and Brian is working on his interpretation right now. My first recollection of a single turbo 911 engine wasn't from Porsche. It was homegrown Corvair setup adapted to a 911, probably in the late 60's. A guy just like many on this forum.

Regarding how many is logical, that becomes a discussion of costs, benefits and compromises for goals. One turbo per Porsche engine was convention for many many years. When I did twins it was considered illogical for the street. For you young guys I assure you twins were debated as nonsensical until they were more recently accepted to have benefits offsetting the costs and complications. Now twin is also a "convention", even considered a premium feature by some - not so much others.

I'm not saying we are close to having small turbo efficiencies to support one turbo per cylinder nor that that extreme will ever meet desired goals but we match at 200HP per turbo (typical today with good efficiency). It's not too much of a stretch to consider 3 turbos for a free breathing, responsive motor of planned 600 PLUS HP.

Craig 930 RS 01-16-2008 03:40 PM

Nice, I didn't know "Brain" ;) was working on a TT CIS motor.
Link or pictures, Brian?

WydRyd 01-16-2008 04:23 PM

Well I'm working on a TT Carrera motor at the moment.. just waiting on my MIG welder to arrive and I'll start tackling the exhaust system :cool:

DonE 01-16-2008 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RarlyL8 (Post 3707099)
Actually modern technology has allowed a single turbo to be more powerful and efficient than twin turbos in most applications. There is an elegance and ballsy mantra to having twins on a 911tt. If I were to guess, the reason Porsche did that has more to do with emissions and packaging than power or driveability.
I can see no advantage for triple turbos on a 930.

Twin's on mine is the next step. Not sure I agree about the modern technology angle, as twins will spool quicker, bring HP quicker and torque quicker. Its the reason most every performance vehicle comes out as twins now - even a powerstroke 6.4 is twin turbo now.

Triple turbos....ummm, yah.

How many turbos on a Bugatti these days?

WydRyd 01-16-2008 04:56 PM

Two smaller turbo's has less inertia for exhaust gas energy to "spin up" compared to one big single turbo, therefore the powerband on a twin is "fatter" and you can obtain pretty good top end power with properly matched hybrid turbo's these days. I plan to run K16/24's unitially, however, my ultimate goal is to go to a pair of GT28R's, or GT28RS's.

Not to mention the "cool factor" of having bi-turbo's on an earlier car! Instant wood :p :cool:

RarlyL8 01-16-2008 05:28 PM

I won't argue that twins look better on paper, but I will argue that your butt will never know the difference if the single is set up right.
Twins are for bragging rights, and there's nothin' wrong with that!

You need to check out my Evil Engine thread Craig (see my signature line). We've had a blast with it.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1200533137.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1200533152.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1200533162.jpg

Craig 930 RS 01-16-2008 06:58 PM

Yeah, I was curious about 2 turbos on a CIS engine - more out of sheer curiosity than any practical
"might do it" kind of thing.

FWIW, I am more than thrilled with the CIS setup I have now - the throttle response above 3,200 is right-now quick. I'd even go so far to say that the 'rubber band stretch feel' lag is virtually unnoticeable.

RarlyL8 01-16-2008 09:12 PM

With enough patients and the right components you can get a CIS engine to produce boost at 1800rpm with 1.0bar all in by 2600rpm. That translates to unpreceptible lag and instant throttle response at 2000rpm. I don't know what twins can do for you that is better than that but I do plan to find out. Tripples? I can't imagine that would be of any significant advantage worth the plumbing nightmare.

turboteener 01-16-2008 09:24 PM

If only my mag case would take boost like a man.

How about compound turbos. Lets make some real power. Or maybe sequential turbos. Worked for Mazda and Toyota (well not really Mazda), but sorta. Usually the first thing to get tossed in place of one big single.


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