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-   -   Welding Question (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/389932-welding-question.html)

DSPTurtle 01-29-2008 08:53 AM

Welding Question
 
I got really sick of the wastegate not making any loud noises when it opened. So, last weekend I unbolted the wastegate muffler and went for a drive to see if i could tell a difference... wow, fell in love immediately. To rectify the situation I cut open the wastegate muffler and cut out the baffle that was on the inside. I am now in the process of welding the can back together. I am new to this world of welding but I have been doing my practice exercises like a good apprentice. My biggest question at this point is whether or not I need a shielding gas or if flux cored wire is sufficient? The can appears to be some type of stainless steel but I am not really sure if the gas bottle is a must. I know there are some serious welders out here in 930 world... thanks in advance for the advice.

sand_man 01-29-2008 09:04 AM

I'm not a welder (well not since a high school small engine shop class), but it's on my list of things to learn how to do, well.

One tip I've learned from other, more experienced people, is that you should always disconnect the battery of your car if you are doing any welding on the car itself (sway bar mounts, sheet metal, etc) as the voltage from the welder can roast your electrical harness. I realize that you probably have the pipe off the car, but just FYI.

DSPTurtle 01-29-2008 09:13 AM

I have always wondered how the current that flows through the piece being welded would affect the electronics on the newer cars. Fortunately, right now the pipe is off the car. But I certainly will heed your advice on the battery removal for future undertakings. I also wondered if it woudl be worthwhile to unplug the connector from the brain box too... We have to have a EE on here that can explain why Arc / MIG Welding doesn't hurt solid state electronics... shortest path to ground or something like that :)

e p slick 01-29-2008 10:17 AM

flux core
 
Flux core wire will work fine.

RarlyL8 01-29-2008 10:58 AM

You should not have destroyed the W/G muffler, they have value. I have waste gate dump pipes that will do the job for you.

DSPTurtle 01-29-2008 11:04 AM

I was waiting for you to come online Brian... unfortunately, the WG muffler is attached to the beautiful dual outlet european tail pipes on the drivers side to complete the quad pipe look. In order to maintain the fit of the pipes I figured the easiest way to do the job was to keep everything in place except for the baffle tube inside of the can. This was no big science experiment in muffling technology, just a tube with holes crimped at the end. My lawnmower is more advanced. I was contemplating packing it up and mailing it to you but I figured now was as good a time as ever to learn how to weld for myself. My little guys are almost getting old enough for Karts and I know this is a skill I will need sooner or later. Plus I have about five other things around the garage that need to be welded back together so it was an easy kill to convince my wife this was a good idea.
Plus, I am trying to keep the stock "look" on this car as much as is feasible.

NathanUK 01-29-2008 01:34 PM

The problem with flux cored wire is that when you want to re-weld over your welding you will have to chip off the slag produced from the wire. With a gas bottle you won't have to chip, nasty if you get a piece in your eye.

WydRyd 01-29-2008 06:04 PM

Flux core wire is really designed for outside welding, but produces a lot of splatter and slag... looks messy too. Gas welding produces nicer/neater looking welds, but is designed for indoor usage. I'm learning all this stuff too and have just bought my first MIG welder, so I'm doing a lot of research about this stuff.

A gas mixed with Argon & CO2 will be suitable for Mild and/or stainless steel... Aluminium requires pure Argon.

e p slick 01-29-2008 07:35 PM

Tig
 
OK, buy a Miller Syncrowave TIG welder for a couple of thousand dololars and do it right. If, however, you use a $400.00 squirt gun - wire welder - the flux core is fine. Use anti spatter spray ($5.00 per can - lasts forever) and avoid spatter.

WydRyd 01-29-2008 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e p slick (Post 3736488)
OK, buy a Miller Syncrowave TIG welder for a couple of thousand dololars and do it right.

Unfortunately, most of us "hobbyists" cannot afford a TIG welder and the TIG process is significantly more difficult to learn than the MIG process :confused:

If you don't care how the resulting weld looks, then yes, flux cored wire will do the trick. Just break out the angle grinder and clean it up afterwards with a flap disc :cool:

I just bought a GAS/GASLESS MIG welder myself and am lookig forward to tackling some little projects with the TT exhaust system ;)

e p slick 01-30-2008 07:36 AM

Mig
 
MIG welding actually can "look" pretty good and be more than sufficient in peneteration and strength. I have had a TIG set up for years and, as an amateur weekend welder, like it a great deal. Recently bought Lincoln 175 MIG wire welder for a more convenient machine in awkward situations and
set-up work and the welds looked terrible. A dog could have done better even without opposable thumbs. So I took a couple of welding attempts/parts to the local Miller welding equipment store and asked "What am I doing wrong?" The answers were simple, adjustments made and I now am happy with the results. All this said I believe that with minimal guidance and practice anyone, even a Frenchman, could weld very very nicely, be proud of their effort and have a strong reliable weld. Leave the body grinder out of the equation for if you need to use it something is seriously wrong. Take a trip to the welding store and get enlightenment from a professional. Stay away from the Chinese junk and buy American. My 18 cents worth. EPS - Tucson

kellcats521 01-30-2008 07:55 AM

This is good info - most welding shops will be staffed by at least one 'expert' who can really help. With MIG, there is some magic to figuring out the sweet spot for heat setting, wire feed nozzle height/movement to produce a good looking weld. I agree that the grinding wheel is not the answer - a pile of metal above the area being welded doesn't guarantee that the weld has proper penatration, aside from looking crappy.

Another idea is to find a local weldor and buy him dinner or a 6-pack in exchange for some help. My learning curve was ramped up significantly by watching/learning from a guy paid to do this work spending 1-2 hours working with my welding equipment.

Pat K
87 930
Lincoln Precision TIG 185 and 175 MIG

Alan L 01-30-2008 10:47 AM

A nice MIG weld should sound like a machine gun - a constant fast zap- zap- zap. If you find the wire feed is pushing your head away from the work you are probably feeding too fast. If you get intermittent starts and flashes, too slow. If you blow holes - too much current. If you get lumpy , non continuous, try more current - too much heat dissipation at the weld site.
Somewhere to start from anyway - I've been going thru the MIG learning curve for a few months too - but when going well, beats the pants off arc.
Alan

e p slick 01-30-2008 12:13 PM

Serge in Paris...
 
Serge in Paris...Are you taking notes? There will be a quiz...EPS

NathanUK 01-30-2008 01:14 PM

To set a mig up, try it out on some metal of the same thickness before doing it on the real piece.

Keeping the same close distance from the weld is very important. If you get too far away the shielding gas won't work either.

What Alan says is spot on too.

I actually went on a welding course and did mig/mag. You guys might want to do that if you are as anal as me.

WydRyd 01-30-2008 03:31 PM

Here is an awesome site I've been visiting frequently for all my MIG needs and has a great calculator for setting up your MIG machine for various gauge metals etc... they also have a great forum with lots of experts providing useful information/feedback etc...

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/calculator.htm

Check out their Tutorial section... it's very good ;)

Blaine Sellie 01-30-2008 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e p slick (Post 3737813)
Serge in Paris...Are you taking notes? There will be a quiz...EPS

Ya just don't learn......amazing.

Blaine

jwmarc 01-31-2008 06:18 AM

I would agree with Brian ... you should have saved the muffler...I purchased a straight pipe for about $50 bucks... yeah the sound was awesome..but what I found was that boost pressure bled off faster.. I went back and fourth a number of times between the two pipes... the car held .8 with the muffler... the internal baffles held the pressure better while with the straight pipe I would hit .8 and then watch the pressure gauge back off a bit to .6 while still heavy on the throttle... I am not sure if this would be the case with a different WG such as a Tial.

my 2 cents.

e p slick 01-31-2008 09:03 AM

Blaine
 
Aw shucks - grease down those feathers. EPS

Alan L 01-31-2008 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwmarc (Post 3739300)
...but what I found was that boost pressure bled off faster.. I went back and fourth a number of times between the two pipes... the car held .8 with the muffler... the internal baffles held the pressure better while with the straight pipe I would hit .8 and then watch the pressure gauge back off a bit to .6 while still heavy on the throttle... I am not sure if this would be the case with a different WG such as a Tial.

my 2 cents.

I'm a newbie to Turbo - so can't offer any useful opinion - but would the muffler affect the boost pressure bleed. I have a simialr issue with mine - slight drop in boost with increased revs. At the moment, among a hundred other issues, I'm chasing leaks. Mine has a straight pipe too. Given the dump from the wastegate is controlled by the spring, is it logical that the bleed could be affected by the muffler - downstream of the spring/waste valve?
Alan


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