Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
DSPTurtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Suntree, Florida, USA
Posts: 2,229
Welding Question

I got really sick of the wastegate not making any loud noises when it opened. So, last weekend I unbolted the wastegate muffler and went for a drive to see if i could tell a difference... wow, fell in love immediately. To rectify the situation I cut open the wastegate muffler and cut out the baffle that was on the inside. I am now in the process of welding the can back together. I am new to this world of welding but I have been doing my practice exercises like a good apprentice. My biggest question at this point is whether or not I need a shielding gas or if flux cored wire is sufficient? The can appears to be some type of stainless steel but I am not really sure if the gas bottle is a must. I know there are some serious welders out here in 930 world... thanks in advance for the advice.
__________________
JB - BreitWerks
www.breitwerks.com
321-806-8664
Engine Rebuild & Restorations
Old 01-29-2008, 07:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
"I wuz the liquor..."
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,483
I'm not a welder (well not since a high school small engine shop class), but it's on my list of things to learn how to do, well.

One tip I've learned from other, more experienced people, is that you should always disconnect the battery of your car if you are doing any welding on the car itself (sway bar mounts, sheet metal, etc) as the voltage from the welder can roast your electrical harness. I realize that you probably have the pipe off the car, but just FYI.
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 01-29-2008, 08:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
DSPTurtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Suntree, Florida, USA
Posts: 2,229
I have always wondered how the current that flows through the piece being welded would affect the electronics on the newer cars. Fortunately, right now the pipe is off the car. But I certainly will heed your advice on the battery removal for future undertakings. I also wondered if it woudl be worthwhile to unplug the connector from the brain box too... We have to have a EE on here that can explain why Arc / MIG Welding doesn't hurt solid state electronics... shortest path to ground or something like that
__________________
JB - BreitWerks
www.breitwerks.com
321-806-8664
Engine Rebuild & Restorations
Old 01-29-2008, 08:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
e p slick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tucson
Posts: 1,289
Garage
flux core

Flux core wire will work fine.
__________________
AMG V8 SL55 Mercedes, 993 C2, 86' Carrera 3.6 hot rod, Purple 1998 993 that didn't make the cut, 3 very old 930s, A/Fuel Dragster CH3NO2 (R.I.P.), Blown Alcohol TAD, AA/AA, 360 Maxim wingless, Cummins Turbo Diesel. Amateur Welder, Painter and sculptor sort of. -
Old 01-29-2008, 09:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,425
Garage
You should not have destroyed the W/G muffler, they have value. I have waste gate dump pipes that will do the job for you.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 01-29-2008, 09:58 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
DSPTurtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Suntree, Florida, USA
Posts: 2,229
I was waiting for you to come online Brian... unfortunately, the WG muffler is attached to the beautiful dual outlet european tail pipes on the drivers side to complete the quad pipe look. In order to maintain the fit of the pipes I figured the easiest way to do the job was to keep everything in place except for the baffle tube inside of the can. This was no big science experiment in muffling technology, just a tube with holes crimped at the end. My lawnmower is more advanced. I was contemplating packing it up and mailing it to you but I figured now was as good a time as ever to learn how to weld for myself. My little guys are almost getting old enough for Karts and I know this is a skill I will need sooner or later. Plus I have about five other things around the garage that need to be welded back together so it was an easy kill to convince my wife this was a good idea.
Plus, I am trying to keep the stock "look" on this car as much as is feasible.
__________________
JB - BreitWerks
www.breitwerks.com
321-806-8664
Engine Rebuild & Restorations
Old 01-29-2008, 10:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
The problem with flux cored wire is that when you want to re-weld over your welding you will have to chip off the slag produced from the wire. With a gas bottle you won't have to chip, nasty if you get a piece in your eye.
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 01-29-2008, 12:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
WydRyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,563
Flux core wire is really designed for outside welding, but produces a lot of splatter and slag... looks messy too. Gas welding produces nicer/neater looking welds, but is designed for indoor usage. I'm learning all this stuff too and have just bought my first MIG welder, so I'm doing a lot of research about this stuff.

A gas mixed with Argon & CO2 will be suitable for Mild and/or stainless steel... Aluminium requires pure Argon.
__________________
Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 01-29-2008, 05:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
e p slick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tucson
Posts: 1,289
Garage
Tig

OK, buy a Miller Syncrowave TIG welder for a couple of thousand dololars and do it right. If, however, you use a $400.00 squirt gun - wire welder - the flux core is fine. Use anti spatter spray ($5.00 per can - lasts forever) and avoid spatter.
__________________
AMG V8 SL55 Mercedes, 993 C2, 86' Carrera 3.6 hot rod, Purple 1998 993 that didn't make the cut, 3 very old 930s, A/Fuel Dragster CH3NO2 (R.I.P.), Blown Alcohol TAD, AA/AA, 360 Maxim wingless, Cummins Turbo Diesel. Amateur Welder, Painter and sculptor sort of. -
Old 01-29-2008, 06:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
WydRyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by e p slick View Post
OK, buy a Miller Syncrowave TIG welder for a couple of thousand dololars and do it right.
Unfortunately, most of us "hobbyists" cannot afford a TIG welder and the TIG process is significantly more difficult to learn than the MIG process

If you don't care how the resulting weld looks, then yes, flux cored wire will do the trick. Just break out the angle grinder and clean it up afterwards with a flap disc

I just bought a GAS/GASLESS MIG welder myself and am lookig forward to tackling some little projects with the TT exhaust system
__________________
Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition

Last edited by WydRyd; 01-29-2008 at 06:53 PM..
Old 01-29-2008, 06:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
e p slick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tucson
Posts: 1,289
Garage
Mig

MIG welding actually can "look" pretty good and be more than sufficient in peneteration and strength. I have had a TIG set up for years and, as an amateur weekend welder, like it a great deal. Recently bought Lincoln 175 MIG wire welder for a more convenient machine in awkward situations and
set-up work and the welds looked terrible. A dog could have done better even without opposable thumbs. So I took a couple of welding attempts/parts to the local Miller welding equipment store and asked "What am I doing wrong?" The answers were simple, adjustments made and I now am happy with the results. All this said I believe that with minimal guidance and practice anyone, even a Frenchman, could weld very very nicely, be proud of their effort and have a strong reliable weld. Leave the body grinder out of the equation for if you need to use it something is seriously wrong. Take a trip to the welding store and get enlightenment from a professional. Stay away from the Chinese junk and buy American. My 18 cents worth. EPS - Tucson
__________________
AMG V8 SL55 Mercedes, 993 C2, 86' Carrera 3.6 hot rod, Purple 1998 993 that didn't make the cut, 3 very old 930s, A/Fuel Dragster CH3NO2 (R.I.P.), Blown Alcohol TAD, AA/AA, 360 Maxim wingless, Cummins Turbo Diesel. Amateur Welder, Painter and sculptor sort of. -
Old 01-30-2008, 06:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
kellcats521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Atlanta Metro
Posts: 219
This is good info - most welding shops will be staffed by at least one 'expert' who can really help. With MIG, there is some magic to figuring out the sweet spot for heat setting, wire feed nozzle height/movement to produce a good looking weld. I agree that the grinding wheel is not the answer - a pile of metal above the area being welded doesn't guarantee that the weld has proper penatration, aside from looking crappy.

Another idea is to find a local weldor and buy him dinner or a 6-pack in exchange for some help. My learning curve was ramped up significantly by watching/learning from a guy paid to do this work spending 1-2 hours working with my welding equipment.

Pat K
87 930
Lincoln Precision TIG 185 and 175 MIG
Old 01-30-2008, 06:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,190
A nice MIG weld should sound like a machine gun - a constant fast zap- zap- zap. If you find the wire feed is pushing your head away from the work you are probably feeding too fast. If you get intermittent starts and flashes, too slow. If you blow holes - too much current. If you get lumpy , non continuous, try more current - too much heat dissipation at the weld site.
Somewhere to start from anyway - I've been going thru the MIG learning curve for a few months too - but when going well, beats the pants off arc.
Alan
Old 01-30-2008, 09:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
e p slick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tucson
Posts: 1,289
Garage
Serge in Paris...

Serge in Paris...Are you taking notes? There will be a quiz...EPS
__________________
AMG V8 SL55 Mercedes, 993 C2, 86' Carrera 3.6 hot rod, Purple 1998 993 that didn't make the cut, 3 very old 930s, A/Fuel Dragster CH3NO2 (R.I.P.), Blown Alcohol TAD, AA/AA, 360 Maxim wingless, Cummins Turbo Diesel. Amateur Welder, Painter and sculptor sort of. -
Old 01-30-2008, 11:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
To set a mig up, try it out on some metal of the same thickness before doing it on the real piece.

Keeping the same close distance from the weld is very important. If you get too far away the shielding gas won't work either.

What Alan says is spot on too.

I actually went on a welding course and did mig/mag. You guys might want to do that if you are as anal as me.
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 01-30-2008, 12:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
WydRyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,563
Here is an awesome site I've been visiting frequently for all my MIG needs and has a great calculator for setting up your MIG machine for various gauge metals etc... they also have a great forum with lots of experts providing useful information/feedback etc...

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/calculator.htm

Check out their Tutorial section... it's very good
__________________
Merv
'89 911 Turbo Cab
Protomotive MAP ECU, Twin Plugged Heads, GT2-EVO CAMs, 3.3L fully finned P&C's, ARP fasteners, C2T head gaskets, Titanium Retainers, Turbo spec valves, springs & guides, 964 splash valves, GT35R BB turbo, GSF Stainless Headers, Magnaflow Exhaust, Full bay Intercooler, TiAL 46mm w/gate, TiAL 50mm BOV, Apexi AVC-R EBC, SPEC Stage3+ Clutch kit, Crane CDI Ignition
Old 01-30-2008, 02:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Blaine Sellie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Sammamish, WA USA
Posts: 344
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by e p slick View Post
Serge in Paris...Are you taking notes? There will be a quiz...EPS
Ya just don't learn......amazing.

Blaine
__________________
1988 Porsche 930 Factory Slantnose- B&B Headers, GHL dual exhaust, K27-7200, Tial WG, B&B Intercooler, RSR Coilovers, Poly Bronze bushings. Dynoed at 373 hp/389 tq
1974 Porsche 914 2.0 Phoenix Red
2011 Porsche Panamera Turbo
Old 01-30-2008, 06:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: columbia md
Posts: 211
Garage
I would agree with Brian ... you should have saved the muffler...I purchased a straight pipe for about $50 bucks... yeah the sound was awesome..but what I found was that boost pressure bled off faster.. I went back and fourth a number of times between the two pipes... the car held .8 with the muffler... the internal baffles held the pressure better while with the straight pipe I would hit .8 and then watch the pressure gauge back off a bit to .6 while still heavy on the throttle... I am not sure if this would be the case with a different WG such as a Tial.

my 2 cents.
__________________
1987 930 -Guards Red
2001 740I sport Blk
2011 F-150 supercrew Blk
2014 X3 2.8 white
"What goes around comes around..."
Old 01-31-2008, 05:18 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
e p slick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tucson
Posts: 1,289
Garage
Blaine

Aw shucks - grease down those feathers. EPS
__________________
AMG V8 SL55 Mercedes, 993 C2, 86' Carrera 3.6 hot rod, Purple 1998 993 that didn't make the cut, 3 very old 930s, A/Fuel Dragster CH3NO2 (R.I.P.), Blown Alcohol TAD, AA/AA, 360 Maxim wingless, Cummins Turbo Diesel. Amateur Welder, Painter and sculptor sort of. -
Old 01-31-2008, 08:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwmarc View Post
...but what I found was that boost pressure bled off faster.. I went back and fourth a number of times between the two pipes... the car held .8 with the muffler... the internal baffles held the pressure better while with the straight pipe I would hit .8 and then watch the pressure gauge back off a bit to .6 while still heavy on the throttle... I am not sure if this would be the case with a different WG such as a Tial.

my 2 cents.
I'm a newbie to Turbo - so can't offer any useful opinion - but would the muffler affect the boost pressure bleed. I have a simialr issue with mine - slight drop in boost with increased revs. At the moment, among a hundred other issues, I'm chasing leaks. Mine has a straight pipe too. Given the dump from the wastegate is controlled by the spring, is it logical that the bleed could be affected by the muffler - downstream of the spring/waste valve?
Alan
Old 01-31-2008, 01:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:20 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.