Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 760
You may want to send your oil off to get tested and find out exactly what those bubbles are.

I would say it must be an air leak somewhere. Do you have any oil leaks? quattro isnt far off with the "broken Straw"

you may even want to pull your vavle covers off and see if there is any evidence of bubbles or popped bubbles (little circles everywhere) If there are, then the issue is inside the case

Then you will want to remove your oil filter and check it. If your oil filter is clean then that would rule out the large oil line coming from the sump pump, and oil cooler.

If you rule out the oil filter, then move on to the turbo scavenge pump. this oil is not filtered, and goes directly into the oil tank. If you find bubbles, then the issue is most likely somewhere before the scavenge pump (this is where sucking occurs)
__________________
John A.
1979 Porsche 930: 3.4L, SC cams, Twin plug, Leask WUR, Custom SSI turbo exhaust, Tial WG, K27HFS, and we can't forget the Zork (short lived depending on my homeowners assoc.)
05 Boxster S: For the Track.
06 Dodge Ram 2500 Power Wagon: Tow Vehicle
Old 02-06-2008, 08:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,291
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by timc View Post
AMSOIL 20/50 racing. If I was getting blowby, then wouldn't I see some evidence of this when I removed my oil cap a bit of pressure????
Yes, if you have the oil breather line that runs from the tank to the oil separator and then on to the air filter is plugged. But otherwise, no.
I just thought of another remote possibility, the engine scavenge pump pickup is cracked. Like "quattrorunner" suggested, anything on the suction side will put bubbles in the oil. Anything on the pressure side of the oil system, will bleed oil.

I would suggest you contact cnavarro using this thread ( Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils )and see what the anti-foaming characteristics of this oil are. You definitely got foaming going on and some oils are more resistant to foaming than others. And by foaming I mean the oil's ability to retain bubbles. This is primarily due to the surface tension of the oil. One of the properties of detergents, is to reduce the surface tension of a liquid.

Miguel,
I don't know where you get your information, but it is totally incorrect. There is no scientific evidence you can provide that would state otherwise.
__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P

Last edited by WERK I; 02-06-2008 at 08:29 AM.. Reason: can't spell ;o)
Old 02-06-2008, 08:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chas, SC
Posts: 1,015
Bubbles

Just talked to my brother, he has experienced the same issue and it was moisture.

I've had to park the car outside for the last month, (which I have never done before), and leave it covered when not driving. As stated earlier, it gets driven several times a week, of at least 40 continuous miles, mostly highway and rural roads, very little stop and go. Then there are the monthly trips to FL (approx 500 miles). So, I am wondering if it is due to moisture from outside. I just can't remember if the bubbles started about the time it was moved outside, but very well could be.

The other thing I have done recently is to remove the factory air cleaner for a small round K&N, and I have just attached a small K&N to the rubber breather line that comes from the tank.

Just trying to think what all has recently changed.

Edit: I just searched the 911 side, and found several threads addressing this with some responses that this normal.


Tim
__________________
Tim
1986 930
Gone:71,2,4 914's, 70T, 71T(RS),77S

Last edited by timc; 02-06-2008 at 10:22 AM..
Old 02-06-2008, 10:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Macht Schnell
 
les_garten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by timc View Post
Just talked to my brother, he has experienced the same issue and it was moisture.

I've had to park the car outside for the last month, (which I have never done before), and leave it covered when not driving. As stated earlier, it gets driven several times a week, of at least 40 continuous miles, mostly highway and rural roads, very little stop and go. Then there are the monthly trips to FL (approx 500 miles). So, I am wondering if it is due to moisture from outside. I just can't remember if the bubbles started about the time it was moved outside, but very well could be.

The other thing I have done recently is to remove the factory air cleaner for a small round K&N, and I have just attached a small K&N to the rubber breather line that comes from the tank.

Just trying to think what all has recently changed.

Edit: I just searched the 911 side, and found several threads addressing this with some responses that this normal.


Tim
Hmmm, Interesting thread. A couple of thoughts here.

I've never seen moisture in oil do that.

The color of your oil looks a little strange to me, like toasted pecans or something. Is Amsoil colored strange? Just a thought. My oil is usually clear and hard to even see on the dipstick. Could this be combustion byproducts?

How long has the oil been in the motor?

Does the oil have a smell like fuel or exhaust smell?

Those bubbles look like air entrainment to me.

How quickly do the bubbles appear after an oil change?

Here's what would be interesting to me:

1) Change the oil and while it's draining, capture a Glass full in a clear glass.
2) Capture a glassful from the crankcase and the sump separately, set aside.
3) Load some more oil in it! :-)
4) Drive it and see how quick it bubbles.

In the meantime, observe your captured oil for separation. If it's water, it should settle to the bottom, I would think. If it's air, it should rise and pop on the surface. You could transfer some to a slender test tube to see if it layers easier.

Les
__________________
---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 02-06-2008, 11:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chas, SC
Posts: 1,015
bubbles

Thanks Les, good suggestions.

Yea the AMSOIL is reddish to begin with, looks like trans fluid. The oil in the car has just about 2k. No gas or exhaust smell. I have it analyzed each oil change and all is normal. No detectable engine wear what so ever. When I pull the dipstick, the bubbles then begin to pop! but not all of them.

I'll change the oil next week, capture from both locations, then see how quick it returns.

I'll post my results next week....

Tim
__________________
Tim
1986 930
Gone:71,2,4 914's, 70T, 71T(RS),77S

Last edited by timc; 02-06-2008 at 12:18 PM..
Old 02-06-2008, 12:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Macht Schnell
 
les_garten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by timc View Post
Thanks Les, good suggestions.

Yea the AMSOIL is reddish to begin with, looks like trans fluid. The oil in the car has just about 2k. No gas or exhaust smell. I have it analyzed each oil change and all is normal. No detectable engine wear what so ever. When I pull the dipstick, the bubbles then begin to pop! but not all of them.

I'll change the oil next week, capture from both locations, then see how quick it returns.

I'll post my results next week....

Tim
I think if it was moisture, your bubbles wouldn't pop. If anything they might flow together and coalesce into a drop, ehhh? Also, if you had that much water in your oil as evidenced on your dipstick, you would be getting some emulsified looking mikliness to the oil. I guess I'm thinking here that if you had that much oil at the level of the dipstick, you would see a bunch of water lower in the sump. Just a guess though.

Les
__________________
---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 02-06-2008, 12:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 95
If the bubbles started since you started running the oil level lower than previously,...then I'd bring the oil level up a little closer to the middle of the marks on the dipstick and see if the bubbles go away. If the bubbles go away, case closed.
From reading your first post it sounds like the bubbles did'nt appear until you started running the oil level a bit lower than the norm.
Old 02-06-2008, 02:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chas, SC
Posts: 1,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by moochie View Post
If the bubbles started since you started running the oil level lower than previously,...then I'd bring the oil level up a little closer to the middle of the marks on the dipstick and see if the bubbles go away. If the bubbles go away, case closed.
From reading your first post it sounds like the bubbles did'nt appear until you started running the oil level a bit lower than the norm.

That was actually one of the first things I did, was to bring the oil level back to midway, actually I've got it 3/4 the way just to rule that out. No change....

Tim
__________________
Tim
1986 930
Gone:71,2,4 914's, 70T, 71T(RS),77S
Old 02-07-2008, 05:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 95
Sorry,.. I must have missed that part.
Old 02-07-2008, 06:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Smart quod bastardus
 
fredmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 2,232
Garage
Sounds like you could have sucking thru straw symptom on the suction side of the oil pump. Is it possible you loosened or blocked the oil sump pick up tube when replacing the oil drain cover on the bottom of the engine?
If the oil sump pick up tube to the oil pump has broken loose where it enters the oil pump casing, then it could be sucking air at this point and creating the bubbles in the oil.
Just my guess.
__________________
1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 02-07-2008, 09:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,281
Try disconnecting the small line going to the oil tank from the turbo scavenge pump that is driven off the front of the drivers side cam.
Hopefully the oil level in the tank is below it...
Run the motor and collect the oil from that line in a jar or whatever and see if it's full of bubbles.
It's not gonna skwirt oil all over the place so no worries about that. Not alot of oil goes through the turbo and there is no restriction orifice in the tank fitting so there's no pressure either, just a slow flow.

Do this when the oils hot too.

At least that may narrow down the source of your.. bubbles.
Old 02-07-2008, 09:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
Try disconnecting the small line going to the oil tank from the turbo scavenge pump that is driven off the front of the drivers side cam.
Hopefully the oil level in the tank is below it...
Run the motor and collect the oil from that line in a jar or whatever and see if it's full of bubbles.
It's not gonna skwirt oil all over the place so no worries about that. Not alot of oil goes through the turbo and there is no restriction orifice in the tank fitting so there's no pressure either, just a slow flow.

Do this when the oils hot too.

At least that may narrow down the source of your.. bubbles.
I was going to suggest the same thing, but I believe that oil line on the tank is below the oil line. if it is, just plug the hole on the tank and do what JF suggests.
__________________
John A.
1979 Porsche 930: 3.4L, SC cams, Twin plug, Leask WUR, Custom SSI turbo exhaust, Tial WG, K27HFS, and we can't forget the Zork (short lived depending on my homeowners assoc.)
05 Boxster S: For the Track.
06 Dodge Ram 2500 Power Wagon: Tow Vehicle
Old 02-07-2008, 01:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
Certifiable
 
Quicksilver77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 194
Send a message via Yahoo to Quicksilver77
Tim,
What was the outcome of the bubble situation? I checked my oil level today and saw pretty much the same thing!
__________________
Sean D. 1987 930
India Red/Beige/Black; Mahle 3.4L; Kokeln IC; K27 7200; GHL Headers; Borla Stainless Muffler; SC cams; Sachs Aluminum Clutch; Aluminum flywheel; Bilstein Sport Shocks; Adjustable Rear Sway Bar; Weltmeister Shock Tower Brace; Lowered and Corner Balanced; MOMO RSGT Seats...
Old 03-23-2008, 11:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #33 (permalink)
Registered User
 
copbait73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chesterfield IN
Posts: 1,316
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
Try disconnecting the small line going to the oil tank from the turbo scavenge pump that is driven off the front of the drivers side cam.
Hopefully the oil level in the tank is below it...
Run the motor and collect the oil from that line in a jar or whatever and see if it's full of bubbles.
It's not gonna skwirt oil all over the place so no worries about that. Not alot of oil goes through the turbo and there is no restriction orifice in the tank fitting so there's no pressure either, just a slow flow.

Do this when the oils hot too.

At least that may narrow down the source of your.. bubbles.
The oil coming out the drain of all turbos running at warmed-up oil temperature is highly aerated. This is true of all turbos. At the same time the oil flow is significant and HOT, so I won't suggest doing this.
Old 03-24-2008, 06:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
Certifiable
 
Quicksilver77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 194
Send a message via Yahoo to Quicksilver77
to answer my own question...
oil level too low (still between the marks) Added some more oil... no more bubbles!
__________________
Sean D. 1987 930
India Red/Beige/Black; Mahle 3.4L; Kokeln IC; K27 7200; GHL Headers; Borla Stainless Muffler; SC cams; Sachs Aluminum Clutch; Aluminum flywheel; Bilstein Sport Shocks; Adjustable Rear Sway Bar; Weltmeister Shock Tower Brace; Lowered and Corner Balanced; MOMO RSGT Seats...
Old 03-24-2008, 10:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #35 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:50 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.