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-   -   Bubbles??? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/390851-bubbles.html)

timc 02-03-2008 02:52 PM

Bubbles???
 
Posted same topic on RL also,
For the last 25yrs or so been running my oil levels halfway beteen the two marks. Now for the last couple of oil changes I've been running it right around the bottom mark to see if I used less oil. Now when I ck the oil, I have a bunch of small bubbles in the oil thats on the dipstick, and if I continue to let it idle, then each time I insert/remove the dipstick the oil is a little higher and many more little bubbles. I just cannot remember if this is norma???? Getting old...

tim

9dreizig 02-03-2008 03:44 PM

pictures ? Is the more of a foam ?

timc 02-03-2008 04:21 PM

Bubbles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 9dreizig (Post 3746106)
pictures ? Is the more of a foam ?


Actually, part of it is very close to a foam look. I'll get a picture, thats a good idea, thanks!

Tim

AngM018 02-03-2008 06:48 PM

If it is a foam, almost to a paste, then it could be your not getting the car up to operating temps. do you take a lot of short drives? pics would confirm yay or nay

timc 02-03-2008 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngM018 (Post 3746393)
If it is a foam, almost to a paste, then it could be your not getting the car up to operating temps. do you take a lot of short drives? pics would confirm yay or nay

I'll get some pictures out. Not a paste at all, just alot of very small bubbles. Car is always driven to consistent operating temp, and oil is then ck'd at that point, approx 80c. And I use AMSOIL 20/50 racing.

Tim

JohnJL 02-03-2008 11:59 PM

Sounds like condensation as John A eludes to.

timc 02-04-2008 11:19 AM

Bubbles
 
Does not look like condensation to me.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202156353.jpg

NathanUK 02-04-2008 12:56 PM

Yikes, I would add more oil to that. The extra weight of the oil in the tank might help to stop the foaming.

Miguel Antonett 02-04-2008 01:13 PM

Water evaporates at 100*C or 212*F.

If you never get that oil pass 80*C you might have condensation/water in the oil; however that would turn the oil milky not bubbles My2c.

May be too many "short trips" not allowing the oil to heat up properly. Take the car for a long hard drive - checking the temp gage to be sure all is OK.

timc 02-04-2008 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NathanUK (Post 3747990)
Yikes, I would add more oil to that. The extra weight of the oil in the tank might help to stop the foaming.


Thats just over 9qts, how much more ya want me to add??.


The car is driven several days a week, each trip approx 40miles round trip. One - two Several a month it goes to FL, approx 500miles round trip. Very rarely does it ever get driven short distances.

So, What is causing this. There is plenty of oil in the car (over 9qts) and 99% of the miles are highway miles with my min trip approx 20 miles one way. So I really don't see how water could get into the oil with the amount of miles I drive.

Should I change it? Driving it to FL on Wed, so another 500+ miles, and just got back from daytona which was approx 700 miles.

9dreizig 02-04-2008 06:41 PM

Those look like salmon eggs,, do you live close to a spawning stream ?/

Miguel Antonett 02-05-2008 07:38 AM

I would change the oil and filter before the next trip and see what happened. Oil should not bubble like that.

rsrmike 02-05-2008 07:56 AM

Anytime I've seen oil foam like that it is from air getting sucked into the oil system. It's extremely common on 944's due to the design of their oil pickup system. I know that's irrelavant in this case due to your dry sump setup but the oil looks the same as what I've seen in those cases. Most times the oil getting scavenged from a 911 motor is full of air anyways since the scavenge side of the pump can "outrun" what is draining into the case. This air gurgles it's way through the lines and cooler(if hot enough) and eventually settles out in the oil tank. It eventually gets pulled back into the induction by way of those annoying vent hoses on top of your motor. I would make sure the hose going into the back of the aircleaner from the tank is not pinched. I believe the 86 930 has an air/oil separator on the right side near the tank that drained oil from the breather back into the tank as well. Not sure how to test it though. And of course you could always try a different oil if that is not too blasphemous to an amsoil user:) I've had good luck with Brad Penn, it's the old Kendall formula before they sold out to CONaco (I've had trouble with the "new" Kendall) My $.02 as well, good luck hope it helps.


P.S. Miguel, How's that beautiful brown turbo?

Miguel Antonett 02-05-2008 09:15 AM

Getting ready for Barber on March 8 & 9. Are u going?

WERK I 02-05-2008 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miguel Antonett (Post 3748034)
Water evaporates at 100*C or 212*F.

If you never get that oil pass 80*C you might have condensation/water in the oil; however that would turn the oil milky not bubbles My2c.

May be too many "short trips" not allowing the oil to heat up properly. Take the car for a long hard drive - checking the temp gage to be sure all is OK.

Ok, I may be nic-picking here, but this comment I have seen posted by various members here. Water changes from a liquid to a gaseous state(vapor) at 100 degrees Celsius and 212 F. Water, however, evaporates at freezing temps too. It's just the rate of evaporation is much lower. That's why ice cubes in an ice cube tray get smaller over time. You do not have to get the oil temps into the boiling temp of water to get moisture out of the tank.

The bubbles could be from a few of areas. The turbo sump pump be scavenging air in the absence of oil, the dry sump system may be scavenging air. The other, may be more serious, blowby in the cylinders causing excessive exhaust gases to enter the system. I would suggest a leakdown test to see if any of the cylinders are low.

What type of oil are you using?

Miguel Antonett 02-05-2008 11:02 AM

BTW, that's one of the reasons why we have those breather hoses around the engine = to take care of the "vapors" water, fuel, oil, combustion gases...

And I'm sorry but, YES you need to get the oil temp to 100*C to be able to evaporate the water in it, otherwise it stay as water (liquid).

AngM018 02-05-2008 11:53 AM

Could this be an issue caused by not having enough oil pressure? How does the guage in the cockpit look?

The reason I ask is, the N/A guys put oil restrictors on the cam lines to prevent foaming in the cam towers. I know this is a reach, but I have not seen that kind of bubbling before (that bad at least).

P.S. I would not suggest oil restrictors on turbo engines. I tried them, and started crop dusting as soon as I was at operating temps. Took them off and I was golden.

NathanUK 02-05-2008 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timc (Post 3748336)
Thats just over 9qts, how much more ya want me to add??.

Get the oil level between the two marks when hot.

I'm guessing the extra oil will help keep the bubbles from being fed to the engine, which is a good thing.

timc 02-06-2008 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WERK-I (Post 3749944)
The bubbles could be from a few of areas. The turbo sump pump be scavenging air in the absence of oil, the dry sump system may be scavenging air. The other, may be more serious, blowby in the cylinders causing excessive exhaust gases to enter the system. I would suggest a leakdown test to see if any of the cylinders are low.

What type of oil are you using?

AMSOIL 20/50 racing. If I was getting blowby, then wouldn't I see some evidence of this when I removed my oil cap a bit of pressure????

Oil level is between the two marks. Always has been until just recently when I was running it towards the bottom mark.

Oil Pressure is good.

quattrorunner 02-06-2008 05:28 AM

My comment should be larglly ignored, but you know when you suck a broken straw? It doesn't leak liquid, but it get lots of bubbles in your mouth. Just a quick uneducated thought.


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