DE Question

[DSPTurtle]

I am considering doing my first DE in a few weeks. Couple questions for you guys in the know... 1. Is Roebling Road a good place to start or should I wait for a Sebring event to be my first? 2. 930 or 944 for first DE event? I autocrossed the 930 yesterday for the first time and fell in love all over again. I have autocrossed my 944 for the last 15 years so I am very comfortable with it but jeez... that 930 was absolutely amazing yesterday. 3. Are DE's family friendly? I have two little guys (5&7) and would love to bring them along but not sure if they will get bored and completely harrass my wife. 4. Place to stay... most say downtown Savannah but that does not seem like the place where all the "socializing" happens in the evenings. 5. Graduating from Green to Blue... how many laps/hours/days does it take before you don't need a ride-along anymore? 6. Any other advice for a longtime autox but virgin DE. I can't wait to experience what one of these cars will do on a real track... Any advice is always appreciated!!!

[pkracer21j]

well, I don't think your kids are allowed in the hot pit. meaning your wife will have to make sure they stay in your pit area. I can't answer any other questions but I'd take the 930, it'll keep the straights interesting unlike the 944. that and don't lift. have fun and post up pics on here after the event!

[Craig 930 RS]

Make certain your brake fluid is FRESH - A #1

[Craig 930 RS]

Best bet is have the wife/kids come by to visit - and take off when appropriate.
BTDT myself, see it often and it works well -

[930LDR]

"5. Graduating from Green to Blue... how many laps/hours/days does it take before you don't need a ride-along anymore?"

I would forget about graduating to a level where you don't need a ride-along for a while. Frankly I think PCA is entirely too liberal with this myself, but none-the-less autox is NOT anything like track driving. In fact the last autox student I had in a novice group was a handfull for the first day and a half as I had to break him of all the jerking and throwing the car around habits that he developed on the autox course.

Take all the instruction you can get and you'll be a much better driver for it.

[willtel]

Roebling Road should be a good starting point, I can't speak for Sebring but Roebling Road is completely flat. The lack of elevation changes allows you to get comfortable quickly and there is a good amount of run-off if you do spin.

[Miguel Antonett]

Roebling Road is great!

Take the real P-car = the 930. Keep in mind slow into the turn to get our fast. Don't lift while turning.

The kids will get bored after 10' while you want to watch and talk to others. Ask me how I know...

[DonE]

Bleed the brakes, check the tires (pressure and wear) and go have fun. Most likely, if its your first time to Roebling and first DE, you won't solo. Roebling is a good course - you'll have a great time.

[gumba]

What group are you doing the DE with?

[patkeefe]

The track is not a parking lot. My experience was that I had the crap beat out of me all day. I found it mentally stressful. It was not fun, partly because the PCA doesn't bother to tell you about things like hand signals. Instructors grabbing your steering wheel. I had an out-of-region instructor who kept me in third gear all day at Watkins Glen!!! After a few run groups, I finally said "F..k it" and put it in fourth, got tired of redlining. Not everyone has the same story as me, I may have been an exception. It is an intense learning experience, and you will want to minimize your distractions. You may also consider bringing the 944 for the first time out, for reasons which will likely become apparent after the first day. Try to get rides with instructors as much as possible, I find those rides very educational.

After that, it has been a blast! Have fun!
Pat

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by DSPTurtle

I am considering doing my first DE in a few weeks. Couple questions for you guys in the know...
1. Is Roebling Road a good place to start or should I wait for a Sebring event to be my first?

Can't help you there being a yankee (for now)

Originally Posted by DSPTurtle

2. 930 or 944 for first DE event? I autocrossed the 930 yesterday for the first time and fell in love all over again. I have autocrossed my 944 for the last 15 years so I am very comfortable with it but jeez... that 930 was absolutely amazing yesterday.

Take the 944. It's a MUCH better car to learn in. If you can be fast in a 944 it means you have learned your lessons well. Keep the 930 off the track until you learn how to drive properly. My guess is the 1st day will show you quite clearly what you DON'T know.

Originally Posted by DSPTurtle

3. Are DE's family friendly? I have two little guys (5&7) and would love to bring them along but not sure if they will get bored and completely harrass my wife.

Yes and no. If possible I would wait to find out your run (and work assignment) times and have your family come down late morning in time to watch you run. Then have lunch together and they can decide if they want to stay or go. You don't need to be thinking about anything but driving.

Originally Posted by DSPTurtle

4. Place to stay... most say downtown Savannah but that does not seem like the place where all the "socializing" happens in the evenings.

Ask the guys in that PCA region.

Originally Posted by DSPTurtle

5. Graduating from Green to Blue... how many laps/hours/days does it take before you don't need a ride-along anymore?

Be thankful you didn't ask this on the Rennlist Track Forum.. If you are smart you will keep an instructor with you until THEY beg you to go solo, and after that hand-pick certain instructors to ride along. By then you will know who they are..

Originally Posted by DSPTurtle

6. Any other advice for a longtime autox but virgin DE. I can't wait to experience what one of these cars will do on a real track...
Any advice is always appreciated!!!

I would assume a pre-event Tech Inspection is required. If not, get a form from another region and do it yourself. Be sure your brake pads are at least 75%, and I would flush the system and use ATE Blue or Gold at the least. A fresh oil change never hurts, as you will be pushing her a *bit*, even in green. Don't wear a red or yellow shirt, as most track won't allow you to work wearing them (IF you have to work). A cooler with lots of water. Stay hydrated. Have fun. Pat mentions the "steering wheel grab". Discuss what your instructor plans with him, and ASK if he ever grabs the wheel. If he does, tell him he must announce that each time before doing so. It's not a bad thing and at the speeds you will be going pretty safe as long as you aren't surprised and don't fight his input.

Enjoy, my guess is you will never look back.

[GaryR]

I should also add that I have never been to a PCA DE (been to over 50 in the past 2.5 years) where there wasn't a morning meeting (for ALL drivers) and a classroom instruction meeting (for newer drivers). The passing signals are always discussed in both. Here is a DE Guide from my region (CVR), it will help.

http://www.cvrpca.org/de/forms/06_de_guide.pdf

[fredmeister]

As far as this being your first DE, you will be nervous enuff so bring the car you are more comfortable with, meaning the 944. The turbo is a handful to master and you don't need this extra danger when you are a track newby.
The car on the track is completely different than in an autox. You will find that the 911 or 930 will understeer heavily at low speeds like an autox and become neutral to tail happy at high speeds like track DE's. At least if it is set up half way decent.
Once you have a few DE days under your belt bring out the big guns (ie the Turbo 930).
Your instructor will let you know when you are ready to graduate levels. You will find that having an instructor is one of the great benefits of the DE days. Where else can you get free instruction for the price of a DE weekend?
Good luck bringing the wife and kids....boredom is gonna set in mid day and you don't need the nagging to add stress to your weekend.

[fredmeister]

Some more advice.......BE SMOOTH SMOOTH SMOOTH with your inputs.
Jack Stewart said "Slow down to go fast".
You are gonna love track days and it is gonna ruin you for autox.

Try to check out some videos on the web to learn the line at the tracks you are gonna go to....this will help alot when you first go out on track the first day. Try to get a ride with the instructor as well because I found that being a passenger allows you to concentrate and learn the line alot easier when you are not worried about driving at the same time.

I have a few posted on "streetfire.net" under my user name fastfreddy.

[krasuskyp]

Sage wisdom on studying both track maps and vids prior, and hopefully you've spectated live at the event you intend to run just for familiarity.

Agreed on running the 944 until you're comfortable "out there". DE = entirely different than autox and like others said best to hone your comfort and ease on the track in something less demanding and more neutrally balanced. I'd not run toooooo many in the 944 though, as, then you're just going to have to relearn new lines and techniques when it comes time you feel good enough to venture out in the 930.

Random thoughtlessness off the bottom of me head:

Most events require long sleeves / pants / proper footwear. Gary mentions a cooler, definite plus is staying hydrated and fed. Bring a chair so you can take a break when needed (usually a lot of time spent walking / on your feet). Bring a rain coat and different "levels" of clothes to be comfortable for an all-day outside stay with potentially changing weather conditions. Sunblock if appropriate (sounds goofy but I've gotten scorched being unprepared).

Introduce yourself to as many of the organizers and participants as you can w/o making a fool of yourself. Listen to others, but realize some info is misinfo sometimes as well - it's a balance.

DO keep an instructor with you for as long as possible. And advancing groups adds the factor of having to either step it up a notch or practice your mirror watching / hand signaling skills for passing cars, is an added stressor out there.

Know your car, know you, know your limits.

Check wheel torque, ask around those who run "your car" about preferred tire pressures. Bring an airtank if ya got one, and a toolkit for the just-in-case.

Have the fam come mid morning in a separate car so they can bag out when bored - which will be quick. See if you can convince Wifey to vid a few laps and shoot some on track pics.

Above all, enjoy yourself - and always always be careful.

HTH! What everyone said ^^^here^^^ is nail / head.

[JimCulp]

Roebling is fine for beginners and advanced drivers. In green, you're going to start out slowly at whatever track you choose. You will have plenty of time to advance. Don't worry too much about getting into groups above the one you are in. Take your time and learn as much as you can while you have instructors at your disposal. Even experts get people to ride along with them for a different perspective on their driving habits.

If you get an instructor that is annoying, just try to filter out the bad crap and focus on the information that helps you get better.

Ask lots of questions after each run and talk your way through the runs while they happen (it helps if your instructor has a com setup so you don't have to yell at each other). I find it helps me improve too. If I thought I late apexed, it's nice to hear the instructor agree, so I say out loud "late apexed that one" and you'll hear back whether or not you were right.

Go and talk to others in your group and see what their instructors are telling them too- you might get a different point of view.

Just soak it all in and enjoy it. Once you get out there for a couple of runs, it's not intimidating at all- it's just fun.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by JimCulp

If you get an instructor that is annoying, just try to filter out the bad crap and focus on the information that helps you get better.

Actually if you have ANY problem with your instructor you should immediately go see the chief instructor and ask fo a different one. You should never "put up" with not clicking, for whatever reason..

[kleinbbc]

I enjoy doing chinmotorsport events. You have more track time then you know what to do with. Take the 944 to understand the lines at the track with braking and shifting then when you are ready take the 930 out. Also if you miss shift the 944 its a lot cheaper to fix.
Have fun and be safe

[Rory Mckenna]

I know I am going against the current with this... but I say take the 930, iF it is the car you want to drive... do not be scaed to drive it.. few people take them to the track and learn to drive them the correct way .. which is why most people are scared of them..930's are GREAT track machines... just because you have a 930.. doesn't mean you have to drive like a goof and wreck it.. drive slow.. learn the line, and then slowly work on technique and other aspects of being a better driver... trust me there is MUCH to learn before you start to try posting fast laps.....START SLOW... LEARN.. AND AS YOU LEARN YOU WILL NATURALLY GET FASTER WITHOUT TRYING TO GO FASTER.. but hey .. everyone has an opinion.. and well.. we al know what they say about that.

Just go, have fun.. and be smart! and you'll be fine and leave the weekend wanting to go back ASAP! I will say though.. leave the Auto Cross driving style at home.. if you snap a steering at the track and throttle jockey the car like it's done at an auto cross... you'll regret it VERY FAST!... smooth inputs is best.. it you do it right.. you look like you are driving slow... but you'll be scooting along just fine! I thikn you should try to have an incar video as well it's good to review and learn from....

[Craig 930 RS]

Totally agree with:
.. you look like you are driving slow... but you'll be scooting along just fine!