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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930LDR View Post
Mine sucked. With my K27HFS the andial unit loaded up the fuel in the mid range and then let the car lean out up top. Ended up disconnecting it and installing an adjustable WUR and RPM activated solenoid. Car runs SO much better (and stronger).
A question - if you shut off the RPM switch, does your car still load up in the midrange? I'd bet that it loads up even more than it did with the Andial unit, assuming that your A/F ratios are 'correct' up top.
Old 02-05-2008, 09:58 AM
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Uh, Pat.......I'm talkin' to YOU, so don't cluster others into the 'us' category -
So how about some specifics, Pat, rather than the generalizations which amount to zip -

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=264941

The Leask WUR and rpm solenoid should cover you for all boost scenarios. The Andial's only adjustment, as I'm sure you know, is a potentiometer with maybe 6 different positions to lengthen or shorten the duty cycle of the lambda valve. It will have only a certain maximum effect when it's redirecting the control head pressure back to the fuel tank, thus (with reduced pressure) increasing the mixture. The whole thing is triggered by a boost pressure switch, adjustable to your liking. Andial recommends that it be set to actuate at .6 Bar. I guess a person could get 'inventive' and try to alter the potentiometer to create even a longer duty cycle and richer result, but I don't know if it's worth the effort.

and another:
What I have always found is the Andial unit did not help up top, which was why we developed the head modification.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-05-2008, 10:11 AM
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And another reference:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=376919



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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-05-2008, 10:16 AM
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It would load up but not to the same extent as the car did when I had only the Andial unit active. The RPM solenoid does allow me to delay the initial dump of fuel. In order to come even remotely close to a safe AFR at full boost and 5,000 RPMs I had to have the Andial cranked to 5. Even then I was well into the unsafe zone.

I don't claim to be an expert on this, I can speak only from my personal experience. I have run the car with the Andial, with the Andial and a Ported Fuel Head, an Adjustable WUR and a Ported Fuel Head and finally an Adjustable WUR, RPM Solenoid and Ported Fuel Head. My personal experience tells me that the Andial unit is lack luster at best (at least with my application).

I'm not looking to get into a theoretical debate on the matter because frankly I don't understand the theory. I just know what worked and what didn't work for me in my car.

Another thing to keep in mind is that when that unit was initially designed, almost nobody was running big hybrid K27s or ball bearing turbos in their 930s. They were running stock units, 7200s or 7006s, which don't in anyway have the ability to maintain 1+ Bar of boost at the upper ends of the RPM curve like the newer turbos can. As a result the Andial may have worked just fine back in the day for the applications that people were running around with. Today, for me, it falls short.
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'88 Blk/Blk 930 ('Lucy') - Not Stock & Not Running

Last edited by 930LDR; 02-05-2008 at 10:23 AM..
Old 02-05-2008, 10:20 AM
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It does. Chronic lack of fuel on the top end, thus the Leask WUR.
His manual is extraordinarily well written, and the product has provided me with nearly level AFRs top to bottom - at 9 bar.
I neede the fuel head -

The 438 RWHP and 413 RWTQ are added bonuses ;-)

Adjustable WUR offers:
1) Cold control pressure via hex nut on top of the WUR
2) Warm control adjustment on the bottom via 4mm hex
3) Full throttle enrichment pressure via adjustable disc on bottom of WUR
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-05-2008, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930LDR View Post
It would load up but not to the same extent as the car did when I had only the Andial unit active. The RPM solenoid does allow me to delay the initial dump of fuel. In order to come even remotely close to a safe AFR at full boost and 5,000 RPMs I had to have the Andial cranked to 5. Even then I was well into the unsafe zone.

I don't claim to be an expert on this, I can speak only from my personal experience. I have run the car with the Andial, with the Andial and a Ported Fuel Head, an Adjustable WUR and a Ported Fuel Head and finally an Adjustable WUR, RPM Solenoid and Ported Fuel Head. My personal experience tells me that the Andial unit is lack luster at best (at least with my application).

I'm not looking to get into a theoretical debate on the matter because frankly I don't understand the theory. I just know what worked and what didn't work for me in my car.

Another thing to keep in mind is that when that unit was initially designed, almost nobody was running big hybrid K27s or ball bearing turbos in their 930s. They were running stock units, 7200s or 7006s, which don't in anyway have the ability to maintain 1+ Bar of boost at the upper ends of the RPM curve like the newer turbos can. As a result the Andial may have worked just fine back in the day for the applications that people were running around with. Today, for me, it falls short.
So, just to get the FACTS straight, CRAIG.... The Andial was delivering more fuel to the motor than the WUR in this instance. Whaddya know.....

And, your first comment on this system (rob peter/pay paul) shows that you were clueless as to how the Andial system operates, especially considering that your adjustable WUR does the same thing as the Andial, probably better than the Andial, I'll agree, but it robs Peter just the same.....

And, I have no comment on the other quote you posted - I'll let the record of exploded engines and missed expectations depicted in many posts on many forums speak for themselves.
Old 02-05-2008, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellcats521 View Post
So, just to get the FACTS straight, CRAIG.... The Andial was delivering more fuel to the motor than the WUR in this instance. Whaddya know......
First off PAT, CRAIG didn't post that commentary I did. And yes the Andial was delivery more fuel in the midrange than my adjustable WUR does because I can dial back all that excess fuel courtesy of the WUR's adjustability.

Simply suppling more fuel at a given point in the power curve relative to the adjustable WUR doesn't make it a better (or even good) device. In fact I was loosing power because the damn thing was running so rich at the midrange. I had to sit there and wait with my foot on the floor for boost and RPMs to rise high enough where the motor could actually use all that excess fuel.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:45 AM
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Why are you so hell bent to convince us that the andial unti is so great? You don't even have the damn thing installed on your car! Why don't you save your theoretical rantings until you have some real world experience with either (or preferably both) units.
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'88 Blk/Blk 930 ('Lucy') - Not Stock & Not Running

Last edited by 930LDR; 02-05-2008 at 10:53 AM..
Old 02-05-2008, 10:49 AM
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For my car - which required the fuel head - I had to snap in a 5,200 'chip' to adjust the RPM full boost enrichment delay switch (also provided by Brian Leask) -- to a surprising 5,200 rpm.

That is, delaying full dump of fuel at 5,200/up.

In my case, I needed the IA fuel head to provide fuel up top
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-05-2008, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930LDR View Post
Why are you so hell bent to convince us that the andial unti is so great? You don't even have the damn thing installed on your car! Why don't you save your theoretical rantings until you have some real world experience with either (or preferably both) units.
I'm not hell bent on anything. It gets falsely lumped into the 7th injector crowd (which is a BAD idea for a 930), just as it did in this thread. Whether it's truely better or worse than the adjustable WUR is a different issue, and really depends on the application and the data, NOT a stab opinion. My point was simply to discuss how the Andial unit operates, and to maybe have the original poster evaluate what it's doing (since he already has the unit) and what he needs, before he spends more $$.
Old 02-05-2008, 11:05 AM
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fair enough
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:09 AM
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The RPM switch brought in 30 lb ft of torque, made the AFR level in the midrange, and saved a bit of gas that dumoping for no use. And no more black soot in the tail pipe!

Some pictures of my installation - the RPM switch, adjustable WUR, and fuel head.
I assisted in the rebuild, tuned it, got it finalized:





RPM switch:
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-05-2008, 11:17 AM
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Kellkats, thank you for the education on page one- I always thought that the Andial setup was indeed a 7th injector. The setup that my friend blew his motor with was a 7th injector therefor ruling out the possiblity of it being an Andial unit.

I have been enlightened

I personally like the idea of the Leask WUR and modified fuel head, I believe these are the best route as they still function the way the factory intended and delivere the correct fuel
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Old 02-05-2008, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellcats521 View Post
I'm not hell bent on anything. It gets falsely lumped into the 7th injector crowd (which is a BAD idea for a 930), just as it did in this thread. Whether it's truely better or worse than the adjustable WUR is a different issue, and really depends on the application and the data, NOT a stab opinion. My point was simply to discuss how the Andial unit operates, and to maybe have the original poster evaluate what it's doing (since he already has the unit) and what he needs, before he spends more $$.
Thanks.

Approx how much does the adj WUR and the fuel head cost installed? That's not the same as the old school european fuel head is it? My motor was done in the early 90s by a good shop here in so cal. I don't want to spend any more $ if I can help it. I just want to set it up so the motor will not blow up. Most of my $ is going into a freaking college fund. I work for them now.
Old 02-05-2008, 01:32 PM
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Until you check the A/F ratios you won't know what, if any, new parts you will need.
The fuel head mod is WAY overused. You don't need it until you cross 375WHP.
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Old 02-05-2008, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
I personally like the idea of the Leask WUR and modified fuel head, I believe these are the best route as they still function the way the factory intended and delivere the correct fuel
Don't forget the RPM switch, this is the part that helps to keep the AFR curve flat.
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Old 02-05-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Until you check the A/F ratios you won't know what, if any, new parts you will need.
The fuel head mod is WAY overused. You don't need it until you cross 375WHP.
I got 360 at the wheel on pump gas(91 octane ***** CAL gas). I even try 1/2 tank of 100 octane gas and still the same sound. Maybe its me beign too freaked out by the rattle sound. The air fuel seem fine. Its just that sound I don't like when on full boost. Maybe its my waste gate dumping air? My timing is at 24 degrees. old crank fired system

I don't know who to trust anymore.
Old 02-05-2008, 01:53 PM
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I've never been able to diagnose (or even identify as far as I know) pinging or detonating noises... may make the most sense to have a pcar mechanic listen.
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Old 02-05-2008, 02:01 PM
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I've never been able to diagnose (or even identify as far as I know) pinging or detonating noises... may make the most sense to have a pcar mechanic listen.
Problem is that most guys mess with lots 3.0 and 3.2 motors and not turbos. when the turbo comes on, all hell breaks loose back there and lots of noise. I know what detonation sound like from a n/a car, but not turbos. especially flat 6 turbos. I don't do any work on the car. I talk to my regular guy, and he seem to think its fine. that **** scares me. Some say for sure its pinging, some say beat on it and its fine. I think they they hope it blows up and I can go back to them for a 25k rebuild.
Old 02-05-2008, 02:21 PM
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Get a wideband afr gauge set up in the car. That will atleast tell you whether or not you are running in the 'safe' zone while on boost.

Innovate has a pretty nice, all in one, wideband and gauage kit on their site. I installed one in my 930 last winter and it has proven invaluable in getting things sorted out. I think they just introduced a slightly cheaper gauge so you may be able to do the whole thing for $250 or so.
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Old 02-05-2008, 02:29 PM
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