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andial fuel enrichment ?

How can one tell if the system is working? It seemed to make a bit of difference when I dynoed the car a couple of years ago. Changing the clicks made a little of difference with the A/F. Now it sounds like pinging or is it the compressed air going through. I only hear it above 5 bar. Swooooch, then rattles a little. Thanks

Jeff
Old 02-04-2008, 12:11 PM
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Mine sucked. With my K27HFS the andial unit loaded up the fuel in the mid range and then let the car lean out up top. Ended up disconnecting it and installing an adjustable WUR and RPM activated solenoid. Car runs SO much better (and stronger).
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:20 PM
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Rob Peter/ pay Paul system - can it.
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:27 PM
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Who else made thes systems? I have one but have no idea who manufactured. Mine seems rich under full throttle . like smoke screen bad, is that normal?
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:16 PM
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No. Either your mixture is way off (but with that much smoke I would think it would bog down) or you have oil leaking into your turbo and burning off.
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:41 AM
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It is not unusual for a stock 930 WUR to "fog" under boost as the A/F ratio drops in the 10s. If that is your scenario and you also have a fueler then the situation is made worse.

If you have not done so you should check your A/F ratios on a dyno or with an LM-1 or like unit and adjust accordingly.

Personally I do not care for the ANDIAL fuel enrichment device. Those three fellows are experts but this device is often used when not needed. A more viable solution is an adjustable WUR.
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:06 AM
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Let's remember that the Andial unit works in the exact same manner as an adjustable WUR except that it is controlled by an electrical signal rather than boost/manifold pressure.

Andial used a pulsing injector to limit the fuel flow returning to the tank (post WUR), thereby increasing the pressure in the CIS fuel delivery system, and the amount of fuel being delivered. It obviously has limitations, just as the WUR does, and I'm not sure how effective/usuable the programming was in the Andial unit, but in theory it should do no better or worse than the adjustable WUR.

I have an Andial unit sitting in my toolbox - I never got around to putting it on my car because I have good A/F ratios with my current setup. I would have no aversion to using it in place of having my WUR modified.

Pat K
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:39 AM
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I dont know much about the Andial unit, I just remember a friend of mine ran one and not too much time cylinders 3 and 4 were smoked. I belive that this is because the intake manifold is not 100% equal in how it distributes air and 1,2,5,and 6 got the majority of the fuel while 3 and 4 got starved.
It could have been someone elses enrichment sys. but I think it was an andial 7th injector setup
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:47 AM
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is this used just for controling detonation under boost?
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
I dont know much about the Andial unit, I just remember a friend of mine ran one and not too much time cylinders 3 and 4 were smoked. I belive that this is because the intake manifold is not 100% equal in how it distributes air and 1,2,5,and 6 got the majority of the fuel while 3 and 4 got starved.
It could have been someone elses enrichment sys. but I think it was an andial 7th injector setup
The Andial system does not squirt fuel into the intake - it is NOT a 7th injector system in the 'typical' sence where fuel is metered into the intake (the 930 is a dry intake so this is basically a bad idea - shooting fuel into the 930 intake). The Andial system uses an injector as a frequency valve to IMPEDE the fuel flow BACK to the tank, not squirt more fuel into the motor. The WUR uses manifold pressure to impede fuel return (and an adjustable WUR can thereby be adjusted to impede the 'correct' amount of fuel and thereby raise the amout of fuel DELIVERED to the motor), and the Andial system uses electricity and a variable control to do the same thing.
Old 02-05-2008, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by h20cooled7 View Post
is this used just for controling detonation under boost?
I think it just comes on with boost to up the fuel mixture.
Old 02-05-2008, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
I dont know much about the Andial unit, I just remember a friend of mine ran one and not too much time cylinders 3 and 4 were smoked. I belive that this is because the intake manifold is not 100% equal in how it distributes air and 1,2,5,and 6 got the majority of the fuel while 3 and 4 got starved.
It could have been someone elses enrichment sys. but I think it was an andial 7th injector setup
wouldn't the same thing happen with the adj WUR?
Old 02-05-2008, 09:13 AM
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- and yet it is NOT the same thing as evidenced by the fuel problems at higher rpms as shown on this forum over the past few years.

Doing this correctly on an engine at higher boost with/and/or modified to produce moderate to higher HP involves an adjustable WUR and - after measurement of AFRs under load - possibly the IA fuel head.
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:14 AM
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Fuelers are used to add fuel volume to the system.
Some, such as the 7th injector, are stand alone. Others, such as the described ANDIAL unit or the Leask RPM switch trick the existing system into adding fuel or moving the fueling curve.

Either way the adjustability of the WUR should be used before any bandaid is added. There is more to A/F ratios than just on-boost events.
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h20cooled7 View Post
is this used just for controling detonation under boost?
If you've worked on CIS VW motors, you're familiar with the warm up regulator (WUR). It is generally still called a WUR on the 930, but that really is a misnomer - it IS a control pressure regulator on the 930, as it works during NORMAL operation of the CIS system in the 930, not only during warm up.

To answer your question - Yes - sort of. The beauty of the 930 WUR is that it responds DIRECTLY to boost and it has some (limited) variability in controlling fuel. As boost rises, the pressure activates a control in the WUR which impedes fuel return - this increases pressure in the fuel system and thereby increases the amount of fuel delivered to the motor. The limited variability is this - the WUR control is basically an on-off switch - it has a 'bit' of 'slightly on' control, but for the most part, once it sees enough boost it effectively opens the floodgate. Modifying the WUR to make it adjustable allows for the ability to control how big the floodgate is (also limited by the fuel head, lines, injectors, pumps), and a delay control was also developed (by B. Lasek) to allow the floodgate to open later.

The Andial kit controls the same system - fuel RETURN. I really haven't jumped into the actual control circuitry, but it appears to only use RPM as a trigger to limit fuel return. I'm pretty sure it is not tapped into the boost sending unit, which is the only way it could use boost as a trigger.

Pat K
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
wouldn't the same thing happen with the adj WUR?
Not if the device is a 7th injector. The extra fuel would be introduced into the air manifold upstream of the CIS injectors. The air manifold is not designed for fuel distribution.
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by h20cooled7 View Post
Who else made thes systems? I have one but have no idea who manufactured. Mine seems rich under full throttle . like smoke screen bad, is that normal?
I talked to my wrench, he says that at full 5 clicks( I think there are some with 3 clicks) you should see black smoke with the pedal on the floor. I saw no smoke, so I am thinking it isn't working. Do you guys hear any kind of noise when the turbo comes on. Is it a swoooch sound or does that sound change on full boost (this is next to a wall in the freeway). I had a few local (good) p wrench look at it and some say no problem a couple say its pinging.
Old 02-05-2008, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
- and yet it is NOT the same thing as evidenced by the fuel problems at higher rpms as shown on this forum over the past few years.

Doing this correctly on an engine at higher boost with/and/or modified to produce moderate to higher HP involves an adjustable WUR and - after measurement of AFRs under load - possibly the IA fuel head.
What you've stated here is more 'evidenced' on the inability of PEOPLE to use the equipment available to them, not faults in the equipment itself, per se.

Unfortunately, there are MANY here who intrusted their cars and their wallets to 'experts', then proceeded to blow up their engine. Reality is that an adjustable WUR has as many limitations as the Andial system, IF the person setting it up KNOWS what they're doing. I'll offer that simply working on a particular brand of vehicle for 20 years (and blowing them up all along the way)
hardly makes anyone an 'expert' (except maybe on blowing them up )
Old 02-05-2008, 09:27 AM
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Yipes man, remove the Andial and use the adjustable WUR!

Turbos do big time destruction in a very short time frame.
You may already belong to the multi-piece piston ring club -

Edit: I give up. Take the advice. Use the Andial. Enjoy.
Just be certain to call up a reputable engine builder and ask him about the 20 yr old Andial system and see how many install them today......
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Last edited by Craig 930 RS; 02-05-2008 at 09:31 AM..
Old 02-05-2008, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
Yipes man, remove the Andial and use the adjustable WUR!

Turbos do big time destruction in a very short time frame.
You may already belong to the multi-piece piston ring club -

Edit: I give up. Take the advice. Use the Andial. Enjoy.
Just be certain to call up a reputable engine builder and ask him about the 20 yr old Andial system and see how many install them today......
You must be one of these 'experts'. If both of these devices EFFECT the same circuit (fuel return), please give us morons the EXPERT reason why the adjustable WUR (a 35 yr old technology in which upfixin der Porsche first published the ability to 'adjust ' it in, I think, 1974) is a better option. Please first, before we get your 'expert' opinion, let us morons all know how many ENGINES you've blown up, so we all have some basis for using your 'expertise'.....
Old 02-05-2008, 09:48 AM
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