Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
icemann427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 896
IC tube, Wooosh, 1 bar spring, and performance intercooler

Hi guys,

I have an 87’ 930 where the engine, until recently, was bone stock. I just redid the full upper end along with new rod bearings, while adding a header system with dual outlets; a K27 turbo; a K&N airbox/filter; a new to me waste gate with straight pipe (instead of muffler); and a performance clutch and lightened flywheel.

I noticed that the bigger turbo’s port sits a little higher than the stock one, and as such, it raises the solid factory IC tube up which doesn’t allow the other end of the IC to seat fully square on the throttle body assembly. While the offset is only slight and it doesn’t appear to be leaking, I’m not 100% sure. Can you guys tell me with what you use to replace the factory turbo/IC tube to allow for the shortened distance between the turbo and IC?

While the engine is running pretty darn strong, I have noticed a very audible “Wooosh” coming from the rear of the car while accelerating between .6 bar and the max. of .8 bar. Could the wooosh be coming from the straight pipe of the waste gate that I’m not used to? Or possibly the problem in the last paragraph? Or do I have another turbo system pressure leak somewhere (FYI, the header system is solid and tight)?

Once this (problem?) is resolved, I was wondering if I could benefit from a 1 bar spring with my engines configuration?

Finally, I do have a full length, long neck intercooler that I have yet to put on the engine. Again, with the configuration of my engine, and possibly with the 1 bar spring, would my engine benefit appreciably by adding the bigger IC? FYI, I will probably have to reconfigure the AC to make the bigger IC fit, so this is a consideration.

Thanks very much for sharing your wisdom with me. I really appreciate it. Geoff
Old 02-07-2008, 07:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
rsrmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 538
A K-27 should fit pretty well, do you have the aluminum "hat" on the compressor outlet for the pipe to hook to? I would assume yes if your using the hardpipe. I would make sure the "hat" is down all the way, it's a PITA sometimes to get it in with the oring in place. You may try re-clocking the compressor housing a little. If the turbo still sits too high your headers could be the culprit. Are you still using the factory turbo support bracket between the hot side and the muffler?
Old 02-07-2008, 07:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
rsrmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 538
I would ditch that K&N aircleaner housing and go back to factory aircleaner housing. Perhaps modified a little w/ a few holes in the bottom...
Old 02-07-2008, 07:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 760
The whoosh could be normal. It could be the air filter sucking down air, or could be you hearing the turbo spooling up.

we would need some more info. what kind of turbo are you running? what kind of muffler do you have? at what RPM are you hitting full boost?

If it feels strong and you are hitting boost at the right RPM then you are hearing the amazing sound us modified turbo guys love to hear.

If it was a boost leak, then you wouldnt be feeling a strong engine at all.

As for aircleaners. I am running a circular carb like filter on mine, and would never go back to stock. takes up too much room in the engine bay.
__________________
John A.
1979 Porsche 930: 3.4L, SC cams, Twin plug, Leask WUR, Custom SSI turbo exhaust, Tial WG, K27HFS, and we can't forget the Zork (short lived depending on my homeowners assoc.)
05 Boxster S: For the Track.
06 Dodge Ram 2500 Power Wagon: Tow Vehicle
Old 02-07-2008, 11:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 760
If the intercooler is sitting too high, you may want to cut the pipe down, and use a silicone connector between the pipe and turbo. K27's are infamous for not fitting right, at least not without an adaptor of some sort.
__________________
John A.
1979 Porsche 930: 3.4L, SC cams, Twin plug, Leask WUR, Custom SSI turbo exhaust, Tial WG, K27HFS, and we can't forget the Zork (short lived depending on my homeowners assoc.)
05 Boxster S: For the Track.
06 Dodge Ram 2500 Power Wagon: Tow Vehicle
Old 02-07-2008, 11:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
beepbeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsrmike View Post
I would ditch that K&N aircleaner housing and go back to factory aircleaner housing. Perhaps modified a little w/ a few holes in the bottom...
+1

Factory box is good, flows lot's of air and keeps it clean and cool.
__________________
Thank you for your time,
Old 02-08-2008, 01:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Burlington, Wisconsin
Posts: 9,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by beepbeep View Post
+1

Factory box is good, flows lot's of air and keeps it clean and cool.
K&N filters are typically poor at filtering and I have seen many engines with premature wear do to this .. I wish I had a different option for my car
__________________
Ben

914-6 2.4s GT tribute.
914-6werkshop.com manufacturer of 914-6, GT, Conversion parts
Old 02-08-2008, 06:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
beepbeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb911 View Post
K&N filters are typically poor at filtering and I have seen many engines with premature wear do to this .. I wish I had a different option for my car
What is a problem with your car? I used MAN cylindrical truck paper filter when I couldn't mount OEM filter on one car. It was cheap, filtered well and flowed good.
__________________
Thank you for your time,
Old 02-08-2008, 08:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
icemann427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 896
IC tube, Wooosh, 1 bar spring, and perf. IC

I forgot...I do have a 10" round paper cleaner that mounts to the intake that I can use to replace the K&N. My question is more pertaining to the Wooosh noise upon boost. The noise is more like what I perceive would be coming from the air pump system if one of the hoses was disconnected. It isn't a turbo noise (I have owned the car for 12 years and never heard the noise before...And I know its not the K&N filter, because I had that on shortly before I did everything else and the noise wasn't there. I thought maybe its a normal noise coming out of the waste gate that I never heard before since previously I had a muffler on it vs. a straight pipe. But even if that were the case, I don't know if the waste gate lets pressure out as the turbo is spinning up before it reaches its max .8 bar pressure? I believe the RPM is about 3,000 plus when the wooosh starts. The turbo is a K27.

The hard pipe between the turbo and the IC is the factory stock one. Someone is probably correct stating that the headers are probably just higher than the stock system which is forcing the turbo higher...which makes the factory hard pipe not quite fit properly.

Where is a good place to get a silicon tube for between the turbo and intercooler? As you know, one side has a bigger diameter than the other, so I'm guessing it has to be a pretty specialized silicon tube. Thanks guys! Geoff
Old 02-08-2008, 10:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
beepbeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by icemann427 View Post
I forgot...I do have a 10" round paper cleaner that mounts to the intake that I can use to replace the K&N. My question is more pertaining to the Wooosh noise upon boost. The noise is more like what I perceive would be coming from the air pump system if one of the hoses was disconnected. It isn't a turbo noise (I have owned the car for 12 years and never heard the noise before...And I know its not the K&N filter, because I had that on shortly before I did everything else and the noise wasn't there. I thought maybe its a normal noise coming out of the waste gate that I never heard before since previously I had a muffler on it vs. a straight pipe. But even if that were the case, I don't know if the waste gate lets pressure out as the turbo is spinning up before it reaches its max .8 bar pressure? I believe the RPM is about 3,000 plus when the wooosh starts. The turbo is a K27.

The hard pipe between the turbo and the IC is the factory stock one. Someone is probably correct stating that the headers are probably just higher than the stock system which is forcing the turbo higher...which makes the factory hard pipe not quite fit properly.

Where is a good place to get a silicon tube for between the turbo and intercooler? As you know, one side has a bigger diameter than the other, so I'm guessing it has to be a pretty specialized silicon tube. Thanks guys! Geoff
As always, diagnosing leak by listening while on boost is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Find a shop that has kit (or make one), pressurize the intake and check for leaks. Of course, this usually opens a can of worms as many 930 owners have a ton of leaks which they didn't know about (injector seals, cracked intake spacers, punctured hoses etc.)



__________________
Thank you for your time,
Old 02-08-2008, 10:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
beepbeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,565
Alans method:

__________________
Thank you for your time,
Old 02-08-2008, 10:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Burlington, Wisconsin
Posts: 9,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by beepbeep View Post
What is a problem with your car? I used MAN cylindrical truck paper filter when I couldn't mount OEM filter on one car. It was cheap, filtered well and flowed good.
its not A real 930 just a 3.2 ss sc engine with my own custom fabbed exhaust so the 930 air filter stuff does not fit. I have been looking for a nice paper element in a airbox that I can fit in the wheel well to keep the engine compartment clean
__________________
Ben

914-6 2.4s GT tribute.
914-6werkshop.com manufacturer of 914-6, GT, Conversion parts
Old 02-08-2008, 01:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,563
Garage
You can put your tools away. If you have a filter like this I know what your "whoosh" sound is. It is one of the coolest sounds a CIS engine can make - the air meter plate taking a big breath just before the gates of hell open.

I love this little filter. Made it for tuning purposes and left it on for good.

__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-08-2008, 09:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,063
I say + 1 on the carb hat for an intake (cheap power)
Stock intake = unnecessary pain in the a$$ while working around the engine bay.

Rarlyl8 couldnt have said it any better about the intake
__________________
Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette
Old 02-09-2008, 05:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
jay71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Evergreen, CO
Posts: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post

I love this little filter. Made it for tuning purposes and left it on for good.

Rarly- can you tell us how you made your filter? I want one!
__________________
Jay
'86 930
'60 Land Rover Series II SWB
Old 02-09-2008, 06:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 293
jay-
The RarlyL8 930 air-cleaner intake install
__________________
1979 930 Euro
50k:Lindren Green:B&B Dual Out Pipes:K27:965 I/C: --SOLD!!
Old 02-09-2008, 07:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
beepbeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
I say + 1 on the carb hat for an intake (cheap power)
I respectfully disagree. That "hat" probably flows less and ingest more hot air than stock filter box. OEM box has it's intake just under the wing, so it doesn't pick up as much heated air. With other words, "hat" probably makes less power than OEM solution.
__________________
Thank you for your time,
Old 02-10-2008, 08:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
jay71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Evergreen, CO
Posts: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdurbahn View Post
Thanks!
__________________
Jay
'86 930
'60 Land Rover Series II SWB
Old 02-10-2008, 09:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,196
Wastegate under full will make a PSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHH sounds, constant, and a sound much like an extremely loud deflating tire. It's louder than the zork!
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-10-2008, 10:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,563
Garage
I've had that little filter on the dyno many times. Stock filter vs mini filter vs no filter at all = no difference. There is a torent of wind under the hood of my car so no hot spots.

I will say that the little filter would likely hurt a high horse power application. My engine only puts down 325HP to the ground.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-10-2008, 11:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:38 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.