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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Collegeville, PA
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Heat Exchangers/Headers - need advice

I'm still working on gathering parts for my turbo project, and I've got a few questions about what to do concerning my heat exchangers. Please keep in mind that I'm trying to avoid spending a lot of money on this part as my goal is to just get it up and running this year on light boost.

Right now, I have the stock Carrera heat exchangers in place. Todd from Protomotive quoted me $500 to have a J pipe fabricated for my heat exchangers. That seems a bit pricey, but it's not a bad solution for this year. Would their be any advantage to switching out to 930 heat exchangers over my Carrera? Henry at supertec qutoed me $200 for a J pipe on the 930 heat exchangers. Is there another scenario you would recommend for a budget setup? If anyone has a decent set of headers their looking to sell, let me know. Thanks!
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Andy - 1987 911 Carrera Coupe
Old 02-15-2008, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polizei View Post
I'm still working on gathering parts for my turbo project, and I've got a few questions about what to do concerning my heat exchangers. Please keep in mind that I'm trying to avoid spending a lot of money on this part as my goal is to just get it up and running this year on light boost.

Right now, I have the stock Carrera heat exchangers in place. Todd from Protomotive quoted me $500 to have a J pipe fabricated for my heat exchangers. That seems a bit pricey, but it's not a bad solution for this year. Would their be any advantage to switching out to 930 heat exchangers over my Carrera? Henry at supertec qutoed me $200 for a J pipe on the 930 heat exchangers. Is there another scenario you would recommend for a budget setup? If anyone has a decent set of headers their looking to sell, let me know. Thanks!

The j pipe is the same for both situations so remember that.. As I suggested before this is the simplest set up and will meet all your expectations . Don't over invest as most gains will not even be noticed by seat of the pants.. Just be good quality stuff and you will be fine.. Don't go thinking there will be a huge difference between the stock set up vs. headers of any brand. There will be some gains but not as much as the investment.. Most spool gains will bne from turbo back components and cam timing

And for goodness sakes look at the meth/alc injection instead of the IC it will pay off for you in the long run

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Ben

Current project 73 914-6 Gt project rusteration 2.4
Reproduction 914-6 oil tanks, 1-5/8" 914-6 heat exchangers source call 2623647426 or email mbconsulting21 @gmail.com
Old 02-15-2008, 07:20 AM
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I did NOT realize that teh J pipe is the same for both sets of heat exchangers. That's great news - I'll just stick with what I have and get the pipe from Henry.

As for the methanol injection.... I'll keep reading
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Andy - 1987 911 Carrera Coupe
Old 02-15-2008, 07:54 AM
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hello mb911, what exactly are you referencing i.e meth/alc injection for a 930? just curious since my project is only a week or two from liftoff-break in stage.thanks
Old 02-24-2008, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by trauma2 View Post
hello mb911, what exactly are you referencing i.e meth/alc injection for a 930? just curious since my project is only a week or two from liftoff-break in stage.thanks
you can use Water/alchol/methanel as an cooling agent to cool the intake charge instead of an intercooler..
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Ben

Current project 73 914-6 Gt project rusteration 2.4
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Old 02-24-2008, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb911 View Post
Don't over invest as most gains will not even be noticed by seat of the pants.. Just be good quality stuff and you will be fine.. Don't go thinking there will be a huge difference between the stock set up vs. headers of any brand. There will be some gains but not as much as the investment.. Most spool gains will be from turbo back components and cam timing
Ben, that is an interesting statement.

Over on Rennlist a while back I asked a similar question about headers vs. stock exhaust. I asked people to post any back-to-back dyno data they might have. Everyone had an opinion but no one had any data. It reminded me of the standard advice on SSI headers over on the 911 Technical forum.
As for me, I'd love to see some numbers since if there is data that supports this I can quit planning on buying headers that are way expensive and not as durable as the O.E. exhaust.

Does anyone have any back-to-back dyno data?
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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 02-25-2008, 02:17 PM
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Supposedly the major benefit of headers is the reduced length to the turbo. This supposedly reduces turbo lag considerably. Lots of people have confirmed this.
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:00 AM
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Headers are just one component in the package needed to increase power and driveablilty. As stated, headers alone don't add much power but rather lower the boost threshold and facilitate greater HP gains by other components such as a larger turbo.

I plan to add a set of headers to my car at some point. When I do it will go on the dyno and I will share the info.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:32 PM
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Brian: The reason you can't get headers on your car is you're too busy making them up for others. I'm really looking forward to getting the SSI exhaust setup from you...I'm going to do a before and after dyno so that I can post something other than a statement that "it feels so much faster". I'm confident that with the new Tial 46mm wategate, Y pipe, K27, and SSI heat exchangers...that Im going to see some noticeable gains.
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:41 PM
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Oh you'll see gains Chuck.
The trouble is that most folks do many upgrades simultaneously which throws off the test. Because of my business/hobbie I do one change at a time and it's off to the dyno.
Actually that is the real reason I don't have headers now - it would change my baseline for the muffler testing. So far I have dynoed all of my exhaust products using the exact same conservative engine configuration of 300WHP. I have one muffler design left to test and then it's time to mod MY car!

For your purposes Andy, I would buy a $200 J-pipe and get it all going. You can always change out to headers later on.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-26-2008, 06:36 PM
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I did the new IC and new headers at the same time and all I can say is that the engine response is quicker and the on boost point rpm went down about three hundred. Some have described the change that I did as awsome. I did not get that reaction but I could feel the difference. I think the IC will be felt more in hot weather than in fall or winter. And even then it is not making more HP, only loosing less than a stock IC. I think that those of us who grew up in the muscle car era in the US will always compare those cars to any car that we will ever own. The 930 will never compare to the low end torque that we experienced then unless major mods are made. Enjoy the 930 for what it is, an exciting, rewarding awsome car to drive. Beautiful to look at and fun to tinker with. But beware that if the desire to convert it into a muscle car over takes you, it will cost you a fortune and make your car a one man Frankenstien to work on. I bought my car for about $26k and have put over $7k into it. If I had been a little smarter I would have joined this forum a year before I bought a 930 and used the knowledge that I have learned to buy a good car that someone else had spent his time and money on to update his car. Especially if the person was anal like most of us are about our cars.
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911rudy

Last edited by 911rudy; 02-26-2008 at 09:04 PM..
Old 02-26-2008, 09:00 PM
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