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3.2 heads on 3 litre turbo

I have a 3 litre Turbo, 1977 model. I spoke to a Porsche tuner in Europe who says that one way of getting more power is to fit a set of 3.2 cylinder heads, with SC cams.

Other people have subsequent told me that these heads will not fit/ perform- any guidance appreciated. I can twin plug them before installation- not sure if it is worth the effort, seems that benefit appears to be felt on 100 mm or larger pistons.

I will use either a 3.2 manifold , or a custom made one with the heads( if they fit!) as well as a custom EFI which can drive a twin spark set up if required.

If the advise is that 3.2 heads won't work, any suggestions to what steps to improve the current 3 litre set up? Have an inter cooler ready to install ( the 3 liters came without one) and may go the twin turbo route a later point

Thanks
Old 02-20-2008, 03:19 PM
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Mark,

I have 3.3 litre 87 930TT, and I used 3.2 heads successfully for several years. It was part of a Protomotive build, twin plugged, and flame ringed. They worked well on the 3.3 P&C's but I don't know about the 3.0; great breathability.

For "normal" around town stuff and occasional hits of boost you'll be fine with the 3.2 head (IF they fit 3.0 P&C's). I had a few heads crack from heavy track use, with tons of boost, after several years.

I have 3 good flame ringed, twin plugged 3.2 heads if you need them. 3 are cracked, can be repaired or turned into boat anchors if you add rope!

Glenn
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:47 PM
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3.2 Heads

Glenn,
What is the difference between one of your 3.2 heads and a stock head from my 3.3 liter turbo? The reason I am asking is that I think I have one bad head, it fouls the #6 plug very quickly.

Also, could you elaborate on the technique of Flame-ringing?

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:55 PM
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Mark,

3.2 heads are made of a different, slightly weaker alloy than the turbo heads. They are sought after and used because they come with really good ports (large) and breathe well.

Both heads share the same size valves (41.5 exh and 49mm intake). However, the 3.3 turbo heads have smaller ports, which can be opened up. I paid $ to have my 3.3 heads machined open, then hand ported. To match the ports and manifold/gasket sizes of the 3.2 intake, the 3.3 intake port had to be welded/expanded, then machined back, to add material sufficient for good mating. Now I should have the breathability of the 3.2 plus the durability of the 3.3. What a stupid "sport" but fun!

Flame rings, often called Niresist, are literally rings of aluminum or another alloy that act as another measure to insure a seal between the heads and cylinders, used mostly in boosted situations. A groove is cut into the head, another cut into the top of each cylinder, then the ring is inserted between. Under high boost, heads expand outwards, and the rings literally trap the flame from escaping. On old 935's you'd occaisionally see flame coming out, or scorch marks when they weren't used.

Here's a photo of my 3.3 heads using flame rings (aluminum):




If you're getting a fouled plug, try to determine (or post a pic) if it's oil or fuel. You'll likely need a valve job. Maybe you've just got a leaky injector, but probably not. If you're thinking about a spare head, I'd suggest getting a 3.3 like your others, but I doubt you need that step yet.

Cheers -

Glenn
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Old 02-23-2008, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplehaze View Post
Mark,

3.2 heads are made of a different, slightly weaker alloy than the turbo heads. They are sought after and used because they come with really good ports (large) and breathe well....

Glenn,
Nice Heads, who did the work? Also, where did you get the anodized Oil return tubes?

les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 02-23-2008, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplehaze View Post
Mark,

I have 3.3 litre 87 930TT, and I used 3.2 heads successfully for several years. It was part of a Protomotive build, twin plugged, and flame ringed. They worked well on the 3.3 P&C's but I don't know about the 3.0; great breathability.

For "normal" around town stuff and occasional hits of boost you'll be fine with the 3.2 head (IF they fit 3.0 P&C's). I had a few heads crack from heavy track use, with tons of boost, after several years.

I have 3 good flame ringed, twin plugged 3.2 heads if you need them. 3 are cracked, can be repaired or turned into boat anchors if you add rope!

Glenn
PM sent!
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 02-23-2008, 08:58 AM
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Thanks Les.

I actually sanded and painted the return tubes for kicks. We'll see how they last, but the original stuff just gets ugly too fast.

Verdon Tool in NJ did the work. Masters. They really know their stuff. I found not many shops have the tools and experience to do the rings either, although there are several well respected shops.

G
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Old 02-23-2008, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks Les.

I actually sanded and painted the return tubes for kicks. We'll see how they last, but the original stuff just gets ugly too fast.

Verdon Tool in NJ did the work. Masters. They really know their stuff. I found not many shops have the tools and experience to do the rings either, although there are several well respected shops.

G

Hmmm,
I may paint mine next down time.

Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 02-23-2008, 10:11 AM
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You did some NICE work on yours.

Great photo documentation!

Glenn
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplehaze View Post
You did some NICE work on yours.

Great photo documentation!

Glenn
Thanx, I did OK for a Shadetree mechanic, but there are some SERIOUSLY talented guys here on this list. I want to get into the position to take an 18-24 month welding Cert course. MY dad got his cert to help me build things and then shortly thereafter got the big "C" and I lost my fabricatin' and Engine Buildin' buddy. He would have loved to be involved in this 930 project. I inherited his tools and think about him evertime I use one.
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 02-23-2008, 11:17 AM
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Wow, Les. I'm sorry.

I'm sure he knows of your thoughts, and is right there with you, using the tools. I doubt he'd have it any other way. I think we keep our loved ones alive in our heads and hearts - no matter if they're physically here or not. I'm sure he's proud of what you've built.

G
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:51 AM
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Glenn,

Thanks for the info, they look great! My issue is I have a 3 liter turbo as opposed to 3.3 liter turbo engine, and I am concerned about physical compatibility if I use 3.2 heads, will they fit on the barrels ok, or will there be an issue with bolt holes?
I do intend using a 3.2 manifold or a custom built one, so this should not be an issue

I see the bore of the 3.2 is 95mm, as is the 3 liter turbo, whilst the 3.3 turbo is 97 mm, so I am surprised that when used on a 3.3 there aren't hot spots on the base of the 3.2 heads.

Thanks

mark
Old 02-23-2008, 12:46 PM
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To Mark's concern about hot spots on the bottom of the 3.2 heads when put on a 3.3 ... I thought the combustion chamber was the same size on the 3.0, 3.2, and 3.3 heads (hence no difference in hotspotting for 3.2 vs. 3.3 heads). I could be wrong though.

Scott
Old 02-24-2008, 04:09 AM
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Mark,

I'm sorry, I really don't know.

I hope someone else chimes in regarding bolt spacing and fit.

G
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:16 AM
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