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Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
cold start problem

After doing modifications to an 88' 930: k27 7200 turbo, sc cams, Kokeln I/C, SSI H/E and MK exhaust+Brian Bodart Muffler (Hi Brian), and lastly...an adjustable Warm-up regulator, the car ran terribly rich. We adjusted the air flow meter and air bleed to get'er running good. Warm idle was 900 rpm's. Drove for 2 hours. Finally, I got to feel some speed. The next day it was freezing outside, 18 degrees. She wouldn't start. I then adjusted the cold pressure on the warm up regulator- made it richer. She started. Currently, cold start brings 900 rpm's for 15 seconds then begins to drop and the car vibrates. If I give it gas, there is hesitation and a pugh...pugh...pugh... sound- instead of a quick throttle response. There is no black smoke or blue smoke, just white. I assume that 1100-1300 rpm's should be the appropriate cold start idle. I don't yet have an AFR meter. Am I too rich? Too lean? What adjustment is necessary?

Last edited by dsiegel360; 02-23-2008 at 01:24 PM..
Old 02-23-2008, 12:53 PM
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A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
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Does the noise come from the exhaust or the induction? Exhaust is rich, Intake is lean.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/

You can get one from www.imagineauto.com
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 02-24-2008, 04:06 AM
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Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
I can see both the wastegate exhaust pipe and the tail pipe vibrating, which creates one noise while I've got to guess that the lack of throttle response is induction. I was going to purchase the LM-1 until I saw that PLX and C2 turbo Dave have made a beautifully mounted numerical AFR, boost, vac, etc. gauge that fits in the boost part of of the tac. Thanks for the suggestion, I certainly need some form of measurement.

Can you further explain how the exhaust can be rich while intake is lean? I'm a bit new to this.
Thank you.

Last edited by dsiegel360; 02-24-2008 at 04:37 AM..
Old 02-24-2008, 04:35 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
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Hey Doug! Your description sounds like the cold pressure is still too high (lean). Do you know what the actual pressure reading is? The factory WUR cold pressre charts start at 10*C so they aren't a lot of help at 18*F. You might knock the plug in a tad and observe the results.
Another thing to try is unplug the electrical connection on the WUR and see how long before your 900rpm idle deteriorates.
Have you verified that the AAR has power? The cold start idle should be above 1300rpm.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-24-2008, 07:07 AM
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Macht Schnell
 
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Hey Doug! Your description sounds like the cold pressure is still too high (lean). Do you know what the actual pressure reading is? The factory WUR cold pressre charts start at 10*C so they aren't a lot of help at 18*F. You might knock the plug in a tad and observe the results.
Another thing to try is unplug the electrical connection on the WUR and see how long before your 900rpm idle deteriorates.
Have you verified that the AAR has power? The cold start idle should be above 1300rpm.

Hi Doug,
I didn't know you were posting here, welcome!!

Rarly,
Doug asked me about some of this Adj WUR stuff. I don't have one obviously. Where can I get the Tuning instructions online? I've looked thru this forum and couldn't find them. I also looked at a site of Brian's but it didn't describe the action much and nothing about the tuning.
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 02-24-2008, 07:38 AM
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Read my post again. I'm asking you where the noise comes from, exh or int?
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 02-24-2008, 10:31 AM
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Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
Hey guys,
I determined that 2 of the wires that connect to a fitting on the driver's side cam housing were disconnected. I was told that these have something to do with thermostat for cold start. I figured that this was the source of the problem. Nope. Before it started up, there was a hesitation. Usually she turns over right away. Second start worked fine. 800- 900 rpm's was all i got. (Hadn't started her since yesterday.) Perhaps I should test the resistance of the wires.

Nathan- The noise was exhaust. Low rpm...car struggling to remain on.

Brian- what is the AAR? (I just removed the stock breather and modified a K and N to fit like yours. What a relief. Now I can get in there.) I can richen the cold pressure now. When I richened it 2 days ago, I did so to the furthest point that B. Leask suggested. It didn't help. Perhaps because the cold therm wasn't attached.

Les- until I have an LM-1 or some means by which to measure AFR, it seems like guesswork..
Old 02-24-2008, 11:27 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
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Doug, do you have a set of CIS fuel pressure gages?
Instructions should have come with the Leask WUR. If not he will send them to you.
AAR = auxilliary air regulator. That phalic looking doohicky sitting beside the WUR. Both devices are run in series off the starter after the engine is running. The electrical innervation closes the AAR allowing the idle to settle. Pull a hose and see if the gate is stuck shut.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-24-2008, 02:20 PM
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Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
Rarly,
I don't have CIS fuel pressure gauges. Can I get them at an auto parts store or is it porsche specific?

Should I pull the AAR hose while the car is running? How will I know if the gate is stuck?

Update- I turned the key forward and used the tester light to see if there was anything in the red wire that attaches to the thermostat on the cam housing. I got nothing. I couldn't reach the yellow wire. Do those thermostats go bad? Do those wires go to the 7th injector? What is the cam thermostat's proper name?..in case I need a new one.
Old 02-24-2008, 03:23 PM
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A fellow Pelacanite
 
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
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I think that sensor a thermotime switch they called it a temp switch.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/PartsLookup/HTML/911_USA_87_89_KATALOG/103-05-Frame4.htm

Sounds as though you are too rich.
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 02-25-2008, 11:54 AM
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