Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Moderator
 
Porschephd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: OverlandPark KS (Kansas City)
Posts: 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Why do you think I made that air cleaner?
ImagineAuto is forever pissed at me for publicly ditzing that $400 piece of sh.., I mean plastic. K&N lays claim to the biggest automotive marketing hoax of all time in my book.
Hardly Brian, You bring it up and I simply say ok lets compare dynos from 10 years to now. WE discredited the BS claims of 28 HP and found 7-10 overall was typical and 13 peak. Not only myself but Bene’t also confirmed this. So at the end of the day it did have merit along with the ability to open the engine bay.

This discussion never ends. I find it rather amusing we have proved this time and time again with actual dynos yet the crusade lives on.

You should call up Bene’t and tell him that he too is full of it...LOL. I want to be on three way when you do that!

__________________
Stephen
94 3.6Turbo 6-speed AWD
Old 02-24-2008, 08:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Porschephd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: OverlandPark KS (Kansas City)
Posts: 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay71 View Post
I bought a Powerflow Intake from performance recently and I've noticed that the diameter of the opening of the airbox is too small so it's not getting a good seal on the air flow meter. (see photo) It's going to take some sanding or work with the dremel to enlarge the opening on the powerflow box to make it fit correctly. Before I tear into this p.o.s. and make it unreturnable I was wondering if anyone out there that has one can tell me if it really does make a difference (20 claimed HP) in the performance of the car? If not I'm going to make one of those lawnmower-looking air filters like Rarlyl8's and get my $400 back!

Jay, you need to adjust the bracket on the right. Before you do this loosen up the 2 10mm bolts and move the box around until it sits flush or the way you want it. Once in place lock the bracket down then evenly tighten the 2 10mm bolts in place and you should be good to go.
__________________
Stephen
94 3.6Turbo 6-speed AWD
Old 02-24-2008, 08:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Porschephd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: OverlandPark KS (Kansas City)
Posts: 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Good point about the turbo burning up the oil Don. I was thinking in general N/A terms of the 996/7 cars here in town that have had to replace their $400 MAF units due to oiled aftermarket filters.
The oil does not actually kill the sensor it only coats the film not allowing it to read the air as it passes it. CRC makes a MAF cleaner that can be sprayed over the film or sensor, restoring it to normal use. Prior to this we used tuner cleaner for old TVs. Leaves no residue and is designed to soften and remove solder flux and corrosion. People end up with issues when they use compressed air thus blowing the film off the sensor and rendering it dead. Even standing 4 feet away throwing a air nozzle off the air compressor will kill it. The CRC works almost every time.
__________________
Stephen
94 3.6Turbo 6-speed AWD
Old 02-24-2008, 08:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,357
Garage
Anything that cleans up the engine bay is a good thing.

Glad to see we're on the same page concerning the 28HP claim made by K&N.
My dyno runs were made using your basic 300HP 930 engine. I could see an air filter becoming restrictive on a high HP engine but was not surprised when no significant difference showed up on the more typical stockish configuration. It's fairly difficult to get distinctly reproducible results at the 5HP or so range on an air cooled turbo engine. Lots of runs in lots of different temperatures. In my mind if I have to look that hard for it it isn't significant.

Did you ever compare the PowerFlow to the EagleDay unit?

I lost touch with Michael when I left IL a few years back. Interesting fellow.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-24-2008, 08:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,357
Garage
Have you tried that MAF cleaner on the 996/7s? Boy there would be a few folks POed if the units they had replaced could have been cleaned.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-24-2008, 08:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Porschephd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: OverlandPark KS (Kansas City)
Posts: 530
Ah yes, that is how we left this discussion many years ago...not that is was a POS rather it had gains. Additionally it is my conclusion that the box it the difference, not the filter.

Are you talking about the little filter the size of a hand? Yes, I will not use them.
__________________
Stephen
94 3.6Turbo 6-speed AWD
Old 02-24-2008, 08:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
Moderator
 
Porschephd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: OverlandPark KS (Kansas City)
Posts: 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Have you tried that MAF cleaner on the 996/7s? Boy there would be a few folks POed if the units they had replaced could have been cleaned.

This is where I found out that it actually works. Yes, on both the 996 and 997 NA and TT.
__________________
Stephen
94 3.6Turbo 6-speed AWD
Old 02-24-2008, 08:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,357
Garage
Quote:
This is where I found out that it actually works. Yes, on both the 996 and 997 NA and TT.
The local dealership reported to the owners that the oil had actually burned/destroyed the filiments on the cars affected. I think I'll stay away from that one ...
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-24-2008, 09:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Porschephd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: OverlandPark KS (Kansas City)
Posts: 530
A lot of the dealers we sell to would do it free and warranty the time to clean it. Some are actually doing it as part of the service.

The oil doesn't eat the film it only coats it, only excessive air and voltage spikes kills them.
__________________
Stephen
94 3.6Turbo 6-speed AWD
Old 02-24-2008, 09:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Burlington, Wisconsin
Posts: 9,700
[QUOTE=DonE;3789943]I've been running a KN filter on mine for the last seven years. I've had the engine apart three times and have not seen any damage due to dirt being sucked in past the filter (including the turbo compressor blades). On the other hand, I maintain my filter at each oil change. I also have an EFI motor with a wire air intake sensor and don't think twice about oil getting on it - it would have to travel through the turbo and intercooler first which is highly unlikely.

I have also seen "performance shops" fab EFI intakes that place a KN filter in the rear fender well (behind the tire!), subject to road dirt and rain water. Although I have not had a problem with a KN filter, I would never subject it to that kind of treatment.

The high HP general aviation aircraft I work on don't use filters, however they are still approved for grass strips. If we think we will be at a lot of grass strips (air show work), we will install a KN type filter - and this is on a two-stage supercharged $125,000 motor.


Climate has a huge thing to do with the filters. all of the light aircraft I dealt with were running the same kind of RPM out 911 engines run and of the several hundred I have rebuilt in my past life 25% of them failed from foreign matter injested from the K&N filter now these were 2 and 4 cylinder boxer engine's and a good portion turbocharged (think unmanned predetor)
__________________
Ben

914-6 2.4s GT tribute.
914-6werkshop.com manufacturer of 914-6, GT, Conversion parts
Old 02-25-2008, 04:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Registered User
 
copbait73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chesterfield IN
Posts: 1,337
Garage
Earthbound vehicles in south and western states have a uniquely abrasive environment on their streets and running without adequate air filtration will cause noticeable engine wear in short order. More power to you if you have $2-3K to spend on P&Cs on a regular basis.
Regarding foam filters with oil, all are inadequate in this environment.
Say what you will about the OEs, they have armys of really talented well paid engineers and this one is a no brainer to them.
Old 02-25-2008, 07:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Burlington, Wisconsin
Posts: 9,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by copbait73 View Post
Earthbound vehicles in south and western states have a uniquely abrasive environment on their streets and running without adequate air filtration will cause noticeable engine wear in short order. More power to you if you have $2-3K to spend on P&Cs on a regular basis.
Regarding foam filters with oil, all are inadequate in this environment.
Say what you will about the OEs, they have armys of really talented well paid engineers and this one is a no brainer to them.

Exactly my point as well
__________________
Ben

914-6 2.4s GT tribute.
914-6werkshop.com manufacturer of 914-6, GT, Conversion parts
Old 02-25-2008, 09:50 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
 
Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
DonE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Brooks, GA
Posts: 1,211
To bring this thread full circle, we should also discuss the best engine oil to use.....
Old 02-25-2008, 06:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #33 (permalink)
ZLP ZLP is offline
Low Speed, High Drag
 
ZLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: AZ
Posts: 1,246
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonE View Post
To bring this thread full circle, we should also discuss the best engine oil to use.....
M1 V-Twin!!!
__________________
Old 02-25-2008, 06:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,357
Garage
Quote:
To bring this thread full circle, we should also discuss the best engine oil to use.....
Or the merrits of the cool collar, ha!

On a serious note, it would be interesting to hear from folks who have personally put 100,000+ miles on a 930 and how they maintained it. Probably a small pool given the short time most folks own a single car.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-25-2008, 08:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #35 (permalink)
Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
DonE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Brooks, GA
Posts: 1,211
Like the oil discussion, we'll never know. If KN had a 25% failure rate, they would have been sued out of existence. That's a big number for such a successful company.

As for the south and the west being more abrasive, I didn't know anyone would do such a study much less pay attention to it. I guess cinders and sand used in the north for traction in the winter doesn't count. I guess it's a good thing P&C's are plentiful around here.

OK, whatever. I use a KN filter cause I have to - no one makes a paper element for my application - not that I would use one. I also have a foam cover for it too - because they work - or I should say it works for me.

A couple of weeks ago, I showed up at my voting precinct to vote in the primary. At the time, I was the only one in line until these 4 very polished, mature ladies walked in talking about voting for Obama. One said to the person behind the counter, "I guess we shouldn't be talking about who we're voting for". Another said, "well, he's got my vote". With that, the first lady turned back to the official and asked, "what ticket is Obama on?". I wish more people had the passion we have about oil and filters, but with the important things in life.
Old 02-26-2008, 06:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #36 (permalink)
Registered User
 
copbait73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chesterfield IN
Posts: 1,337
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonE View Post
If KN had a 25% failure rate, they would have been sued out of existence. That's a big number for such a successful company.

As for the south and the west being more abrasive, I didn't know anyone would do such a study much less pay attention to it.
I can assure you ALL filter companies have numerous law suits settled and pending.
Regarding any study of abrasive environment, that is a given in the halls of the large OE engineering departments. It's based on years of warranty parts inspections. Warranty amounts to millions $ and are tracked by application and region.
Regarding turbo engines, a close inspection of the compressor blade leading edge will give you a complete picture what to expect downstream.
I wouldn't spend $1K for a turbo, $10-20K for an engine then place a foam/oil filter upstream.

Old 02-26-2008, 06:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #37 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:38 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.