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-   -   help on 930 value (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/395292-help-930-value.html)

jurhip 02-27-2008 04:31 PM

help on 930 value
 
All,
I am looking at a '88 930 with 47000 miles and basically stock condition. Owner did install an intercooler when he first bought it in 1990. Owner did do a preliminary free inspection and for the most part it came up clean. Only items were a chattering clutch, engine oil leaks (still need clarification on what is actually leaking) and a leaking right front brake caliper. The last one is kinda strange as the inspection report did not list the brakes as needing any attention.

Car has all maintenance records. Given it checks out mechanically, what is this worth. I was thinking of offering 33K. Is this completely off base? I have been reading a researching a lot over the past 2 months but want some more opinons. The seller is older and does not drive the car anymore due to the purchase of a 996 TT (hopefully I will also be able to drive that at age 70). I also don't feel he "needs" to sell, but we budgeted 30K when we started this search. My wife is getting sick of the "hey look at this," "what do you think of this"....

Thanks.

icemann427 02-27-2008 04:39 PM

Hi, go to the thread "Should I take the plunge on this one?" and go through all of the posts. It still shows up on the first page of this forum about half way down. Look at the quality of this car the guy got for 30K. It's a beautiful car with all kinds of quality upgrades. This thread should give you a lot of info. Good luck!

Geoff

DW SD 02-27-2008 05:29 PM

Without knowing anything about the aesthetic condition....$23k to $25k and you pay for the repairs. You might want to post pictures? Also, certain color combinations are more desireable. How nice is the paint? A repaint is expensive ($6k at least w/ no body work).

Any kind of restoration or repairs are likely very expensive. To fix leaks and clutch, you are probably looking at a minimum of $1500 and maybe several thousand more.

Do a full PPI. Owner's inspection isn't in your best interest.

Doug

jurhip 02-27-2008 06:45 PM

here's some pics. i am very comfortable performing any mechanical repair to this car. my background and employment give me access to a full machine shop and i am technically competant (at least I hope so, as this is my job :))

that being said, i want a car i don't have to perform repairs to in the near future. this is to be our distance tourer, weekend fun car, and possible DE events thrown in to learn its limits safely.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1204166373.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1204166436.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1204166506.jpg

jwasbury 02-27-2008 07:18 PM

I think you're in the right ball park. Someone pointed out another thread where a nicely modded and maintaned 90k mile '87 is apparently changing hands at $30k. I'd want a better diagnosis on the clutch before making an offer...clutch kit for the 930 is not cheap. Oil leaks are probably an easy/cheap fix.

jurhip 02-27-2008 07:36 PM

jwasbury,
the clutch is my concern as well. reviewing the inspection notes, i feel the oil leaks are likely hose/tubing related. i am not really sure what the deal with the caliper is. my only feeling is an o-ring may have dried out from lack of use. that or a fitting is leaking.

obviously i would perform a thorough PPI and although mileage is low, I plan to invest in a full leakdown test as well. Hopefully it gets that far.

FYI, I have seen a lot of cars for sale with tranny rebuilds at 40-60K miles. Is this the norm for 930. All the cars I have had, old and new have had tranny last well of 150,000. Actually, the only tranny I have ever had to touch is my 914's and I bought it knowing the fourth gear synchro was completely gone. The rest of my cars were ok over 200,00 miles.

jurhip 02-27-2008 07:39 PM

oh, that should be "for my info" - is that FMI know?

bleachii 02-27-2008 07:46 PM

Hi Jurhip....

I'm new around here and haven't been able to offer much info so far...but here is some info that might help....a few years ago I had my engine dropped to fix a few oil leaks and while the engine was out I preemptively had a new clutch kit installed. Total tab was $2800. While the engine was out I asked that all easy wear items like gaskets, seals and hoses be replaced. Just looking at my Repair Order it shows the clutch kit costing 1000.00 with the rest of the parts totaling roughly another $500. Everything else was labor. That total also included items such as all new spark plugs, a valve adjustment, new valve cover gaskets and more.

Maybe you can use the $2800.00 as negotiating power off the price of the car.

Good luck.

jwasbury 02-27-2008 07:55 PM

Jurhip,

my observation is that tranny work of some kind appears to not be THAT unusual for these cars. I had a bunch done to my tranny (w mid 50k mileage) after purchasing. My buddy bought an '86 that was a 30k garage queen and that car (which I $hit you not looked like it just rolled off the showroom floor) even needed 2nd gear work. In my case, there was a problem with the clutch, which I think led to the synchros being beat up. I will say that with a new clutch and tranny work, it shifts like butter. If it doesn't grind gears on test-drive, then you can drive it and enjoy.

Chuck Jones 02-27-2008 09:27 PM

When I bought my 87 930, the PO had just had the clutch replaced and the invoice showed $2500...so the other quotes referenced above are all in the same ballpark. The tranny's themselves are pretty stout...but the clutches need attention around 40K +. You might also have them check the Y fork and the clutch cable...because the 88 is a manual clutch, the wear factor on the manual clutch includes the periperals and not strictly the clutch. My clutch was replaced, but the damn periperals gave out....cable and connectors.

Ferraripete 02-27-2008 09:41 PM

i think good clean history 930's are $35k cars all day long! and even at that...serious values!!

if the car needs a clutch bully...as chuck said, negotiate a few dollars off the asking price and be happy with your investment.

these are fantastic machines and i laugh when people suggest that good ones can be had in the $23-25k range. bargain hunting may bring fruit but as with many cars, buy the best one you can find, pay a fair price...never look back!

best,

pcb

BReyes 02-27-2008 11:57 PM

Hell yeah she's worth that, even though she looks really mean :) But clutch and other parts will keep you busy for a while. Kinda a project if DIY. So long as that's fine, run with it.

Either way I would talk to the PO to see what he is looking for first.

Regards,

DW SD 02-28-2008 08:19 AM

Despite the difference of opinion in value, I think they are purchased for lower, maybe not $25k, but remember, when I wrote that, there were no pictures (black is desireable) and this car still has several thousand $ of work minimum on the clutch and engine R&R. I spent $1500 rebuilding my 930 calipers. Would you really only do one, seems like you need to do four as braking is not an area to compromise. Might as well add pads ~ $300 and maybe new rotors $1000 up to $2000 if they are the full floating type up front (though unlikely given the year). Also, presumably it does not come with the factory intercooler.

The engine bay shots don't look so clean, either? Maybe it is indicative of maintenance efforts.

These cars sit for months in the classifieds often without progress towards a sale. I believe there is a large delta between the asking price and the transaction price. Here are some examples:

I bet the transaction price is a good $10k below asking. Here's a comparable one, albeit without the factory fuchs (+$2500 if you like stock):
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/394728-sale-1986-911-turbo-39-000-miles.html?highlight=930

This one has $20k in the engine, asking $49.5k:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/378072-87-930-turbo-efi.html?highlight=930

slant nose 930 $26.5k asking, not perfect:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/392318-1987-930-slant-nose.html?highlight=930

Higher mileage - But it now...$24.5k
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ksid=p3907.m32

Data point: $26k, rebuilt engine and trans:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/182712-1987-930-turbo-coupe.html?highlight=930
for +$6k could have repainted the exterior and had brand new car

$35k, asking. Who knows if it sold?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/375516-87-930-turbo-fine-condition.html?highlight=930

Ultimately, I wish you luck and am confident you'll enjoy your car. These are awesome, timeless vehicles.

jurhip 02-28-2008 05:35 PM

the "cool" AC on the last one may be due to the lack of an AC drive belt.

icemann427 02-28-2008 06:04 PM

I know this is off track, but DW SD...Do you have any pictures of your car you can share with us? DW, I live in Tucson, now, but spent most of my life in SD and lived in Encinitas, too for a bit. Do you live east or west of I-5? Geoff

copbait73 02-28-2008 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DW SD (Post 3797328)
Despite the difference of opinion in value, I think they are purchased for lower, maybe not $25k, but remember,

Ultimately, I wish you luck and am confident you'll enjoy your car. These are awesome, timeless vehicles.

I've been watching TURBOS for months now and I agree. While bringing up real estate methods of pricing and selling may make some sensitive, the fact remains that home appraisers look at pricing for SOLD homes not ASKING Price. The market price is what SELLS not what is up for SALE. Unfortunately it's hard to find the SOLD pricing for TURBOS but we can see what price level does not sell by following bid closings and contacting Craig's listings.
My experience with Craig's is many TURBOS are getting $20K offers but the sellers are trying to hold at $25K-$30K. These cars are not moving......YET.
Did you see the 60K mile '79 TURBO on ebay? Nothing trick, the car had a botched bare metal paint job that would need striping and respray. His minimum was still somewhere over $20K, LOL.
Yes, if it is your intention to have a tricked out high HP car, pay $5K more on the BASE against that $20K the seller has put in it. Certainly the most cost effective path.

jwasbury 02-28-2008 06:18 PM

Speaking of ebay, there's an '87 930 up now where the bidding has reached 38k. Reserve not met, but the bids are indicative of what some buyers are willing to pay for a clean, low mile, unmolested basically stock example. No affiliation, but its in my neighborhood (ny metro area)

DW SD 02-28-2008 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemann427 (Post 3798489)
I know this is off track, but DW SD...Do you have any pictures of your car you can share with us? DW, I live in Tucson, now, but spent most of my life in SD and lived in Encinitas, too for a bit. Do you live east or west of I-5? Geoff


Geoff,
I'm in Leucadia off of La Costa Ave between 5 & PCH. I don't want to sidetrack the thread, though. I LOVE the area. Email me, if you'd like to diaglogue.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1204252436.jpg

My car has Turbo flares and Turbo brakes. Does that count :D?

DW SD 02-28-2008 06:39 PM

Jurhip,
Why not print out some data from ebay, meet with the seller and show what value (actual offers) they are garnering? Present your case and work it out to a "fair" price resolution. I bet you still save yourself $5k.

Even for a seller who doesn't need the money, maintaining another car is a hassle. Heck, even if you have the garage space, it is still in the way of another project or whatever.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Doug

jurhip 02-28-2008 08:39 PM

Doug,
Thanks, I think I will try that. My offer of 33 didn't go far. I know his ad is fairly new, so he may be waiting for more offers. I know I could probably get the car for less, but I am comfortable with a stock car, in good condition for that price. As of now, I left my offer stand based on a perfect car. Any final transaction amount would need to be discussed over the results of a PPI.

Apparently the asking price of 38 OBO was only valid if OBO was $0 :)

I am not set dead on this one though. I'll keep looking.


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