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-   -   What? Are you stupid? Turbo on a 911SC (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/396401-what-you-stupid-turbo-911sc.html)

germaniac 03-04-2008 06:51 AM

What? Are you stupid? Turbo on a 911SC
 
Hello all,

I am in the process of purchasing a turbo set-up for my 911SC. That said, to help me install the thing, I called a local Florida garage, Richard Danvers Porsche here in Hollywood, FL.

Wow, what a shocking response. I told Mr. Danvers I planned to run this thing at minimum boost, just for a little kick and he basically told me I might as well throw my car away.

He said that the compression etc. wasn't made to handle a turbo and I would blow my engine just attempting to install it.

So, my question is, after hearing so much positive feedback and success stories, is this a stupid undertaking?

I am not wanting 400+hp, I am just looking for a little kick in the pants now and again out of the old girl.

As for safe-guarding engine problems while installing it, what should I do to protect myself and the engine?

Guys, thanks so much. This board has proven invaluable and I would be (even more) lost without it.

Rob
robertludwick@hotmail.com

turboteener 03-04-2008 07:12 AM

He is a dumb ass. It can and has been done. Tune carefully and you will be fine. Also make sure the engine is in good condition.

germaniac 03-04-2008 07:16 AM

Yeah, the engine runs like a top...really good motor. I will have it tuned accordingly after installation.

I even told this guy I am not some hot dogging horsepower freak...I just want a little more performance...he basically called me a dumbass -- I wouldn't recommend this prick if you live in South Florida...very arrogant and only open to his own opinion obviously...isn't the SC based on the original 930 mill anyway? gotta be safe ways to boost it...hell, it is an ironclad motor...thanks for your input

Richard Danvers, you lost my business and my referrals, so who's the dumbass now, huh, huh?

copbait73 03-04-2008 07:28 AM

As a Porsche professional and assuming he is also a good business man his response is entirely predictable.
While I've often done what you are planning to do I've never expected buy in on the idea, paid or otherwise. I think you should seek out a like mind Porsche enthusiast with the skills to help you accomplish this.
Along these lines, IMO if you wish to continue owning Porsches you will be much more satisfied in the long run and have more money in you pockets, if you learn to do many things on your own.
Don't get me wrong, I have high regard for these independent shops and their owners. In my area they are few but invaluable to me when I'm stumped on a problem or need a rare part in a hurry. Most are just trying to make an honest living. But, to make a living they need to charge you a rate that will be hard to recover once you want to move on to other Porsches and projects.
I might add his experience probably is that these rarely work because BOOST is addicting and you will lose your self control, maybe even try to sue him. I repeat, my local guy says "ALL turbo motors now need or will need some level of repair on an ongoing basis, factory included"....it's been his experience - 36 years.

mb911 03-04-2008 07:48 AM

it has been done/it can be done/ and yes you can blow em up. I did! However a stupid mistake.. Search my name and you will find tons of turbocharging info.. Best of luck

copbait73 03-04-2008 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mb911 (Post 3807052)
it has been done/it can be done/ and yes you can blow em up. I did! However a stupid mistake.. Search my name and you will find tons of turbocharging info.. Best of luck

Thanks Ben, I've followed your build and it's good information. Obviously, he just needs to find someone who is more supportive.

les_garten 03-04-2008 09:02 AM

Hi,
Put yourself in his position. You are taking an engine and tranny not designed for what you are trying to do to it. You also are taking a Great car(according to you), and putting a time bomb in it. If he has not done it before, you don't want to be his first convertion. He doesn't want the headache. It's not worth it to him from a financial standpoint. You blow it up, and you blame him anyhow. Presently, the worst you can say about him now is he pissed you off and refused to hand you a loaded gun.

There's no question it can be done, lots here have done it with good success. I think most recommendations would be, get a 930, it's been DETUNED for the street. There's lots of headroom in the engine, tranny, half shafts, etc.

FLAME on McDuff!!

RarlyL8 03-04-2008 09:05 AM

Quote:

"ALL turbo motors now need or will need some level of repair on an ongoing basis, factory included"....it's been his experience - 36 years.
Ha, that's like saying "100% of all health nuts die". What a cop out.
I can see it from their point of view though and would never warrant a turbo conversion. With the ricer craze as it is turbos are being strapped unto anything with a piston, often with disasterous results.

turboteener 03-04-2008 09:06 AM

I have seen this attitude in a lot of places. It like everyone forgot the spirit of creativity and hot rodding that got us into cars to begin with. Personally I like to do things that "can't be done". Its fun that way. If you want a reliable econobox, buy a Honda. If you want a fast car build something cool and just work through the small issues that come up.

germaniac 03-04-2008 09:13 AM

Ben, I need your help. I am the guy buying Rick's set-up and my normal mechanic is asking how the system Rick is offering delivers the air into the intercooler etc. from the SC motor....this is all greek to me, hence the need to get a mechanic involved. Can you help me out? It'd be much appreciated.

Rob

Hayabusa 03-04-2008 11:40 AM

I actually ran with scissors yesterday! AND,,, I wasn't hurt! No cuts! NOTHING!


Don't tell anyone! :D

full quack 03-04-2008 12:22 PM

Ah come on folks, it all just comes down to internal cylinder pressures. Don't exceed the maximum, and you won't blow it up!
930's run 8:1 comp. & up to 1 bar boost. So if you have 10:1 comp., only run .4 bar or so.
Pressure is pressure, it does not matter how you get it, either thru comp. or turbo boost, or supercharger or nitrous.
Just do some research, find the limit, and don't exceed it! Remember it is just a machine, no black magic or smoke & mirrors.

Thats just my 2 cents worth.
Mark

les_garten 03-04-2008 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayabusa (Post 3807554)
I actually ran with scissors yesterday! AND,,, I wasn't hurt! No cuts! NOTHING!


Don't tell anyone! :D

Uhh Huh! Yeah!!

Let's see ya do it again tomorrow!!

I double Dawg dare ya!!

I triple Dawg dare Ya!!

You must think your mama was stupid when she said, "You'll put your eye out with that"!!

I'll be she told ya not to run with scissors also.

e p slick 03-04-2008 03:18 PM

my 2 cents
 
My experience and observations over a pretty fair number of years is that you would be considerably better off and much happier at the end of the day if you were to back off a notch and figure a way to buy a "real" 930. Save time, money and headaches. Sure the conversion can be done - that is how the Porsche company ended up producing the 911 Turbo (see 930). I have a few conversions under my belt and did enjoy the process. However - Time, money, results and resale value add up to a significant total and the question is: Is it really, truly worth it?

EPS Tucsonhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1204672668.jpg

les_garten 03-04-2008 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by full quack (Post 3807660)
Ah come on folks, it all just comes down to internal cylinder pressures. Don't exceed the maximum, and you won't blow it up!
930's run 8:1 comp. & up to 1 bar boost. So if you have 10:1 comp., only run .4 bar or so.
Pressure is pressure, it does not matter how you get it, either thru comp. or turbo boost, or supercharger or nitrous.
Just do some research, find the limit, and don't exceed it! Remember it is just a machine, no black magic or smoke & mirrors.

Thats just my 2 cents worth.
Mark

Ahhhh, 930's never came with 8:1. Let's establish that baseline first. How about 6.5:1 and then 7:1. The distributer also compensated for positive pressure in the manifold by retarding the ignition curve. Moral to the story is there are a lot of pitfalls here that Porsche thought abought when they wanted to Homologate the 930 for RACING and then DETUNE it for the street market.

Of course this can be pulled off. It's just with that compression, one bad move and his engine is history and he gets to spend $15,000 or more fixing it on top of what he's doing now. Let's say he forgets to hook up his wastegate control line ONE time. That's it, Toast!!

As my sainted Father said to me many a time, "Of course one must be willing to underwrite the cost of the experiment"

This was usually his way of telling me I was crawling out on a limb.

RarlyL8 03-04-2008 06:13 PM

You bought the kit, put it on. If you don't like it or find it's too much fuss take it off and sell it.
Ben will help you get 'er going without scattering parts.

les_garten 03-04-2008 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RarlyL8 (Post 3808484)
You bought the kit, put it on. If you don't like it or find it's too much fuss take it off and sell it.
Ben will help you get 'er going without scattering parts.



"without scattering parts"

The Operative Phrase here!!

snbush67 03-04-2008 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayabusa (Post 3807554)
I actually ran with scissors yesterday! AND,,, I wasn't hurt! No cuts! NOTHING!


Don't tell anyone! :D

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1204688729.gifhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1204688783.gif

Quicksilver77 03-04-2008 10:24 PM

I feel I have to add a reply here. I have spoken to Richard Danvers a few times, as I was going to purchase a car which he serviced for 12 years. I have never spoken to a mechanic who was more straight forward, upfront and honest. If I lived in Florida I would not hesitate to take my car to him.
He is probably just looking out for your best interest, I am also sure he is worried about the liability of the possible detonation.
I have no affiliation FYI...

turboteener 03-04-2008 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten (Post 3808198)
Let's say he forgets to hook up his wastegate control line ONE time. That's it, Toast!!

How do you forget to hook up the wastegate line? You could do the same thing to a regular 930. You can kill anything with ineptitude and carelessness. The engine will not blow up the instant it sees too much boost or a slight bit of detonation especially at less than 10psi.

The biggest difference in a regular turbo designed engine and a NA engine outfitted with a turbo is the window for error. A factory turbo engine will be slightly more forgiving of abuse.


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