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Alan L's Avatar
 
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clutch pedal pressure

Any suggestions as to why my beast ('82 930) now has excessive clutch pedal pressure.
I have just had the trans apart, and replaced the stuffed rubber centre clutch with a spring centre. Have just installed the engine and hooking up the trans. The clutch pressure just gets heavier as I depress the pedal - to the point it takes all my leg strength to bottom out the pedal.
What is going on?
The Omega spring seems to make no difference - the clutch is the same with or without it. Have I installed something wrong?
One day I'm gonna drive this thing.
Thanks
Alan
Old 03-07-2008, 08:58 PM
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Omega spring pic .
Is this right?
Old 03-07-2008, 09:43 PM
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It looks like the omega spring is correct.....going from memory. You did check to see if it si the turbo spring because they are different than 911SC spring.
Did you check the clearance at the clutch adjustment screw? It looks like you have the thread bottomed into the clutch fork lever arm which would limit the travel of the pedal and also damage the pressure plate/throw out bearing.
How much pedal free play do you have?
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Old 03-07-2008, 10:13 PM
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The adjuster thread is finger tight onto the lever. It is the 930 spring - it came off this assembly. It has no cylindrical core to go over a pin - just the prongs at each end.
The travel does feel limited, but because the pressure gets very hard. It feels like the Omega spring is doing nothing to assist and all you get is progressively harder clutch pressure. At some point you don't have enough force to go any further.
Is there anything I could have done wrong in the reassembly of the pressure plate to cause this? I can't think of anything. I asked Pelican to send me any other parts I needed to convert from rubber to spring centre plate. I just got a spring plate.
I tightened the pressure plate up progressively and evenly and torqued it down at around 12 ft lb from memory. I have a new driven plate (spring loaded) in between the pressure plate and flywheel. I inserted no other new parts. As far as I can see, there is only one way for the pressure plate finger to engage the thrust bearing - locating into the lugs.
So, what is causing this excessive pressure?
If I disconnect the cable, the pedal falls straight to the floor.
Alan
Old 03-07-2008, 10:41 PM
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Having never done this conversion I am stumped.
You sound like you have done a good job and know what you're talking about. Likely it could be that the thickness of all the new parts is just off. This is a pretty serious conversion and possibly some wrong components went together.....this is the baddest news.
Did you see if the clutch works properly with the engine running? How high is the pedal when it engages the clutch.....this may give more insight into the issue?
Can you go under the car and watch the travel of the lever to see if anything hits while someone else presses the clutchpedal for you. This may shed some light.
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"

Last edited by fredmeister; 03-07-2008 at 10:52 PM..
Old 03-07-2008, 10:49 PM
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I have watched the clutch while the pedal is depressed. It all seems normal except the travel seems limited.
The conversion is recommended by Pelican. I am told there are very few 930's running with the rubber centre clutch these days. I'm not sure how the two can be related in that the friction plate is basically the same except one has internal springs to take the shock, while one has a big lump of rubber. But the problem is not specifically with the friction plate - but more the pressure plate - which has not changed.
The Omega spring is catching very slightly on the bottom of trans housing - you can see the scrape marks - but I think these are from previous, and it worked with reasonably light pedal pressure before.
I'm wondering if the alignment of the friction plate is fractionally out and somehow catching somewhere - but the gearbox shaft slipped in without too much bother. Was thinking of trying to crank it over on starter motor with clutch in and see if anything pings into place.
Alan
Old 03-08-2008, 12:49 AM
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Alan do you have the clutch cable possibly routed around the accel cable by the pedal cluster? Fredmeister the 930 omega springs are heavier than the non turbo omega springs?
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Old 03-08-2008, 05:34 AM
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I have not altered anything at the pedal cluster end, and did not have this pedal pressure before removing the trans. The cable is very free - if I unhook it at the finger end, the pedal falls to the floor.
It feels like a pressure plate issue, but I can't possibly imagine what it could be.
Looks like I will have to pull the engine again, but I have no idea what I am looking for.
Alan
Old 03-08-2008, 11:18 AM
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The manual talks of three clips that come with replacement pressure plates. Not having replaced the pressure plate, I don't have these clips. It says these are used for installation of pressure plate and removed after. I just bolted the pressure plate up to flywheel - evenly and progressively tightening it down and finally torqueing it in place.
Could these missing clips be the problem. I feel something is not right with the pressure plate.
Alan
Old 03-08-2008, 11:29 AM
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did you prop the clutch pedal up with a block of wood when you did the adjusting?

I am not sure of any clips. as long as you use the plastic centering tool you should be good to go.

Is the omega spring new or use? its either the spring, or something is getting hung up.

Pull the spring and everything off, take it apart, clean it, and and reinstall.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:51 AM
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The Omega spring is as was in the car. The trans had a clunk in it, the synchros were shot, so I pulled it apart. The source of the clunk turned out to be the stuffed rubber centre - it was driving directly onto the lugs rather than the rubber shock. Replaced the centre disc with a spring one, did synchros, and changed some ratios. Now the pressure plate feels like it is already loaded (my guess). The cable actually has a bit of slack in it - I was expecting it to be tighter with a new friction plate (altho the old one was not very worn). This suggests the pressure plate is already somewhat extended. and might explain the limited travel - not much further to go. But if this is so, I'm buggered as to why.
Has anyone installed a 930 pressure plate without these tabs? Are they important?
I made up a centering tool on the lathe. The plate centered up well.
Alan
Old 03-08-2008, 12:38 PM
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the cable should be loaded and not slack. you get this load by using a feeler gauge between the screw and arm to adjust it. what kind of pressure plate is it? did you get the extended throw out bearing as well? was it a whole clutch kit?
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1979 Porsche 930: 3.4L, SC cams, Twin plug, Leask WUR, Custom SSI turbo exhaust, Tial WG, K27HFS, and we can't forget the Zork (short lived depending on my homeowners assoc.)
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Old 03-08-2008, 03:24 PM
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I can adjust the cable to take the slack out - but the fact it is slightly slack with a new friction plate suggests (to me) something is wrong internally.
I did not get an extended throw out bearing. I was very unclear what else I needed, so attached a note with the order to Pelican requesting any other parts required for the conversion. They just sent the plate. Given the plate sits in exactly the same position as the old one, with similar dimensions I could not see that this was a problem, and that I needed any other parts. Using the same pressure plate and throw out bearing as previous.
Am I missing some necessary parts? I did post a query on this board prior to ordering , but got no definitive answers.
I am increasingly sure there is already pre load on the pressure plate, but cannot see how this could have occured.
Have tried cranking engine over to see if anything 'drops' into place - no change.
Alan
Old 03-08-2008, 03:34 PM
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Hey guys - any suggestions - I'm stuck on this one.
Don't want to pull the engine again, unless I have to. But if I do, I need to know what I'm looking for.
Thanks
Alan
Old 03-09-2008, 11:40 AM
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Alan, take some better pictures of the omega spring etc etc. I think you have something wrong there, not internal.
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:50 PM
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Nathan - that would be useful - if I have something externally wrong.
I had another pic - but had to edit it down - it was rejected because too big.
Will try again.
I did notice as I tightened the pressure plate up, the fingers did move to the point they retained the thrust bearing - as opposed to it falling into the interior without the rubber bit behind it.
I took this to be a good sign on assembly.
Now I wonder.
Can the pressure plate be installed without using the metal tabs the manual calls for?
Thanks
Alan
Old 03-09-2008, 05:10 PM
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Just wanted to post my spring for comparison...

Old 03-09-2008, 06:15 PM
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Thanks. Well it looks like I have mine right.
Has anyone reassembled a 930 pressure plate without using the metal tabs?
I keep wondering if this is the problem - but the tabs are removed after assembly - so I'm not sure what they do.
What have others done?
Alan
Old 03-09-2008, 06:26 PM
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what tabs? are you talking about the things that hold the throw out bearing in the diaphram springs on assembly?
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Old 03-10-2008, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
Thanks. Well it looks like I have mine right.
Has anyone reassembled a 930 pressure plate without using the metal tabs?
I keep wondering if this is the problem - but the tabs are removed after assembly - so I'm not sure what they do.
What have others done?
Alan
I had my clutch in and out a few times. I don't know anything about clips. I would say it doesn't matter.
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Old 03-10-2008, 05:40 PM
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