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930 timing specs for higher hp motors ?

What would you say the the advance should be on a Andial built twin plug w/ 934 type 12 lead distributer euro fuel ,Andial enrichment . Compression 7.0 boost, 1.2 on 100+ leaded fuel now set set at 29 btdc @ 4000 RPM. I spoke to Andial shortly after motor was built (8000 mi ago ) to reaffirm timing. I thought they recommended max 32 degrees ( not sure if they factored in race gas varible for more than 32 for a twin plug ) however a motor builder says 29 @4000 (euro timing spec) on 93 octane. Also I have a Kremer (low miles ) and when checking the timing ( I noticed the distributer position has never been changed from new ) and was astonished as it was 36 btdc@4000. Any thoughts on this also? . Could the Kremer car have lower compression than 7.0 for this much advance. I also noticed it up to 1.4 bar of boost. It also runs noticably rich off boost so mayby why it is still intact after 10K miles. Thoughts on changes to timing/fuel mixture to get it to pass emissions or just leave it be and confine it to track use? I have recently been in touch with Kremer AG as Manfred Kremer wrote the original build sheet for this car. He recently passed away and the responce was that no one knew where the specs were located for the few 935 street cars they built. Porsche tuner built hot rods can be a mystery in the world of evolving upgrading technolegy and changing fuel availabilty. Your thoughts and input will be appreciated. Maybe a redo of the external management system may be the only answer. However I would like to keep them original, if possible.


Last edited by voitureltd; 03-08-2008 at 07:35 AM..
Old 03-08-2008, 06:22 AM
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Timing should be set on a dyno. While you can do a decent job on the street, the dyno will do a much more accurate job. Every car is different and for anyone to give a figure and you to rely on it completely is insane. I would start low with the 29deg your mechanic recommended and slowly work up from there. Has the distributor been recurved? If not it will probably not have the optimal curve for your built engine.

Do not use the timing curve or specs from your engine as anything more than a reference point. What that engine requires will be totally different.

Changing air fuel mixture should only be done with a wideband. How do you know it is running rich? There is no reason to not run it slightly rich as you are searching for reliability and the absolute total maximum HP. You probably also aren't worried about fuel mileage as this isn't your daily driver. I am assuming this is a CIS motor?
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:25 AM
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:40 AM
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The kremer is visually running rich ( black smoke ) off boost, however tailpipe light grey clean(108 octane ) after hyway use. Yes both cis with enrichment. Both Kremer and Andial have been building since the 70s so the distributers are set up to their standards as they did all the upgrades at the same time. Nothing has been added since. The thing is the Kremer has never been readjusted from Kremer setting of 36 btdc so I assume that is what they recommend. Seem real high from what I have heard. Has anyone run sucessfully with this much? Andial did say when it was freshly done 32 before tdc. I am just not sure if that was on street gas or 108 octane. If street gas then I could probably go to 34 safely on race gas as the kremer is at 36. Wondering if anyone else has similar experience . Otherwise the dyno is the only option. Thanks and yes they both get limited open road use. I need to get a green car to make the environmental folks happy for EPA balance.

Last edited by voitureltd; 03-08-2008 at 06:57 PM..
Old 03-08-2008, 07:55 AM
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I wouldn't play with the advance unless it was on a dyno, and with someone who is very experienced with what they are doing. Those are both expensive engines. also with the dyno you can pull some good A/F numbers. I wouldn't suggest doing a third gear pull in either of those beasts on public roads.


I have always been a huge fan of the Kremer and DP car styling, more pics please!
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1979 Porsche 930: 3.4L, SC cams, Twin plug, Leask WUR, Custom SSI turbo exhaust, Tial WG, K27HFS, and we can't forget the Zork (short lived depending on my homeowners assoc.)
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Old 03-08-2008, 12:01 PM
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Ok



Old 03-08-2008, 02:03 PM
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sweet car
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1979 930 Euro
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Old 03-08-2008, 03:15 PM
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Well, the timing settings the cars currently have must be OK or they wouldn't have lasted this long...

If you don't want to put either car on a dyno then I would make a note of the ignition timing at idle with the pods disconnected in case you ever need to reset/check it.

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Old 03-09-2008, 01:10 PM
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