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Exclamation Heat Exchanger Melting!!!

I just swapped the right heat exchanger on my 911 S with turbo engine..

Three days ago i noticed the engine starts to have bad IDLE once it is warm and kept going for a while...

As i stopped on a traffic light, it died...

Today i drove around, night came, and realized the newchanged HE was RED, like lava.....meaning what?? is this normal?? is this related to the IDLE Problem??...

I believe this is why IDLE is down when the engine is hot....right side HE is MELTING!!!...

Any thoughts??

Need Help !!

MiCk..

This is the HE I installed, euro, but the muffler is different, two pipes, one goes straight from the waste gate...

Ignition is Electronic, Crane Cams installed and Status light Okay...
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MKEDF, 911 78 SC (rebuilt), 75 S Turbooo!!
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Last edited by MKEDF; 03-13-2008 at 09:02 AM.. Reason: Add More Info
Old 03-08-2008, 09:48 PM
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What type of HE did you fit?

You could do a volume test on your injectors to make sure you don't have a lean cylinder or two or three.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

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Old 03-09-2008, 01:25 PM
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Ignition advance mechanism might be stuck, cat might be plugged or your engine might be lean. Probably ignition.
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Old 03-09-2008, 02:41 PM
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is your hot air supply to the cabin hooked up?
these HE's need a supply of fan-driven air passing through them to cool them internally.

Bill K
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Old 03-10-2008, 01:00 PM
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Im going to say +1 on injectors or timing. Im leaning towards injector because of the bad hot idle.
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Old 03-10-2008, 01:39 PM
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Clodged injectors usually raise EGT on boost (and knock engine to death) but they don't lighten up the headers on idle.

I would check timing with warm eninge, I bet it runs like a retard (really retarded)...
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Old 03-10-2008, 03:16 PM
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But, he said it was only one side. I didn't think ignition timing could do that. Now cam timing is a different matter...
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-12-2008, 09:31 AM
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What is the correlation of time between when you swapped out the exchanger and when you noticed the poor idle / hot exchanger?
Could it be a critter had built a nest in that new exchanger, or maybe died in there?
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:44 PM
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No dead critter....

I guess if a critter was stuck there died for shure...

But any way no burn smell and no critter body found...


What you can tell is a gas smell and some tiny explosions happen when i lift my feet from the gas...(That sounds kinda sexy)


Also there is some kind of electrical failure that makes the engine take tiny jumps from time to time at IDLE..


Once going on Full throttle really smooth and STRONG..

Im starting to believe injectors are clodged three of them i believe...must i replace them or just remove to clean them?

Thank you all...
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2001 Boxster (Sold, girl car), 2001 330CI Coupe, 2001 325I, 2001 C240 V6
2003 330 I F1 (E46), 2002 320 I F1 (E46), 1999 323 I (E46)
2001 Peugeot 406 Pinifarina Coupe, 2001 325 I (E46), 2000 328 I (E46)
Never Bought Audi or Cooper too expensive for what you get

Last edited by MKEDF; 03-13-2008 at 09:05 AM.. Reason: Adding info
Old 03-13-2008, 08:57 AM
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Possibly the mixture that side is not getting ignited by the spark plugs and it's getting ignited in the header.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-15-2008, 07:56 AM
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You can check cam timing by using the ignition timing light, no engine disassembly required!
Normally you hook up the strobe light to the number 1 cylinder to set ignition timing at idle. Mine for example set at 5 degrees BTDC......since I run a modified distributor in my 79 930 turbo.
Now hook the timing light to the number 4 cylinder wire and see where it is timed with regard to the Z1 mark on the crank pulley. It should not move much or at all ideally from where number 1 fires. This is due to the fact that the flat-6 firing order is 360 degrees crank rotation between number 1 and number 4 cylinder.
A little movement is to be expected because the cams are running on different sprockets but they should be damn close.
Just a tip that I discovered when diagnosing distributor/timing issues awhile back.
Fred
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
You can check cam timing by using the ignition timing light, no engine disassembly required!
Normally you hook up the strobe light to the number 1 cylinder to set ignition timing at idle. Mine for example set at 5 degrees BTDC......since I run a modified distributor in my 79 930 turbo.
Now hook the timing light to the number 4 cylinder wire and see where it is timed with regard to the Z1 mark on the crank pulley. It should not move much or at all ideally from where number 1 fires. This is due to the fact that the flat-6 firing order is 360 degrees crank rotation between number 1 and number 4 cylinder.
A little movement is to be expected because the cams are running on different sprockets but they should be damn close.
Just a tip that I discovered when diagnosing distributor/timing issues awhile back.
Fred
I'm confused how this procedure has anything to do with cam timing??
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:02 PM
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This will tell you how one cam is timed in relation to the other camshaft only.
It assumes you have the ignition timing set correctly for the number 1-3 cylinder camshaft which is traditionally how we time the car. Once you set the distributor to this cam, the method I laid out will tell you whether the 4-6 cylinder camshaft is either advanced or retarded relative to it.
I am not sure how better to describe what I mean.
I hope this helps.
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
This will tell you how one cam is timed in relation to the other camshaft only.
It assumes you have the ignition timing set correctly for the number 1-3 cylinder camshaft which is traditionally how we time the car. Once you set the distributor to this cam, the method I laid out will tell you whether the 4-6 cylinder camshaft is either advanced or retarded relative to it.
I am not sure how better to describe what I mean.
I hope this helps.
Sorry, don't get this at all. Where your spark plug ignites is determined by ignition timing and is totally separate from CAM timing. Ignition timing is timed to the Crank. You can have either cam timed anywhere you want and the spark plugs will still fire at so many degrees in reference to the crank.

One of us is missing something here. How many CAMS have you timed? CAM timing is INDEPENDANT from crank and ignition timing. You understand that the distributer is driven off a gear on the crank, correct? No matter how bad you screw up your CAM timing, it is not going to change where your distributer fires your spark plug.

I'm missing something here, please re-explain?
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Old 03-17-2008, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
Sorry, don't get this at all. Where your spark plug ignites is determined by ignition timing and is totally separate from CAM timing. Ignition timing is timed to the Crank. You can have either cam timed anywhere you want and the spark plugs will still fire at so many degrees in reference to the crank.

One of us is missing something here. How many CAMS have you timed? CAM timing is INDEPENDANT from crank and ignition timing. You understand that the distributer is driven off a gear on the crank, correct? No matter how bad you screw up your CAM timing, it is not going to change where your distributer fires your spark plug.

I'm missing something here, please re-explain?
You're pretty close to having it right.

1. Cam timing and ignition timing are independent of one another.
2. Cam timing is referenced in relation to the crank(i.e.TDC---cylinder 1 & 4)
3. Ignition is referenced to the crank (i.e. BTDC at cylinder 1)
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Old 03-17-2008, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK-I View Post
You're pretty close to having it right.

1. Cam timing and ignition timing are independent of one another.
2. Cam timing is referenced in relation to the crank(i.e.TDC---cylinder 1 & 4)
3. Ignition is referenced to the crank (i.e. BTDC at cylinder 1)
Correct, but once the distributer is timed to the crank. You can turn your cams around 180 degrees or 47 degrees, 0r 147 degrees and nothing will change on your strobe light. The timing for #1 and #4 as measured by your strobe will always be the same. The both fire at the Z1 mark. There's no way one bank of cylinders ignition timing can drift in relation to the other unless there is something strange going on in your distributer cap. And none of it has anything to do with CAM timing. You can pull the CAMS out of the engine and the strobe will still go off at the same places on the Crank pulley.

Back to the original post, there is no doubt that having your cam timing off can cause one bank to run greatly different than the other, and light some headers up. There is NO way to determine this with a timing light though.

EDIT: I wish there was though!!
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Last edited by les_garten; 03-19-2008 at 10:29 AM..
Old 03-17-2008, 06:20 PM
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What Les said
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-19-2008, 10:19 AM
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