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-   -   930 clutch assembly (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/397535-930-clutch-assembly.html)

Alan L 03-10-2008 10:46 AM

930 clutch assembly
 
I will try posting this query another way.
In reassembling a 930 clutch, can you just bolt the pressure plate straight on or do you need the metal tabs inserted as per the manual. I'm not sure what they do.
I have installed a spring friction plate in exchange for my rubber centered one. Now my best guess is the pressure plate has some pre load. I have difficulty getting travel on the pedal, and a lot of pedal pressure.
Have I done something wrong?
Thanks
Alan

beepbeep 03-10-2008 10:54 AM

Have you used centering tool in order to re-assemble the clutch? Is splined transmission axle completly in in clutch disc? Did you re-use deep dished OEM 930 pressure plate?

More info, please!

930gt-40r 03-10-2008 12:41 PM

are you sure that the fork is seated on the throw out bearing?

Alan L 03-10-2008 12:41 PM

Yes to all Q's - used centering tool - spline went on easy. Is completely in. Re used original pressure plate.
But the manual asks for use of some metal tabs when putting plate back on. I do not have these, and did not use them.
Are they necessary?
I just evenly bolted the pressure plate back on and torqued it up.
Now I have really heavy clutch pressure and limited pedal movement.
It feels like the pressure plate is already pre loaded?
Alan

Alan L 03-10-2008 12:51 PM

When I looked at assembly, thru one of the housing slots, the fork was properly located on the lugs on throw out bearing.
Can you just bolt pressure plate back on without the metal tabs?
I have just inserted a spring friction plate (Pelican) but re used all the other 930 bits.
Replaced the broken rubber centre plate with spring plate.
Have I done something wrong?
Alan

AngM018 03-10-2008 01:06 PM

can you just swap out the rubber centered clutch disk for the spring centered? are they the same thickness? I thought the spring centered is a lot thinner?

When I swapped mine out, I replaced the pressure plate with the thinner aluminum one, and had to use an extended throw out bearing.

did you get underneith the car and have someone press the clutch pedal while you were watching the arm? If so, did it look like it was binding? was the whole assembly moving freely?

Alan L 03-10-2008 01:50 PM

The assembly seems to move freely. I have watched it from underneath.
But I am very unclear whether I can just replace the friction plate. I did post a query on this board earlier, and got no clear answer. I attached a note to my order to Pelican to send anything else I needed for the swap. They just sent the spring friction plate. It certainly is thinner - it has no rubber centre. But I managed to convince myself this is not an issue. The throw out bearing pulls away from the friction disc. The only concern I had was whether the throwout bearing could fall into the gap in the pressure plate (while I was installing). But once I had tightened the pressure plate up, the fingers had moved to the point they were locating the throwout bearing and it could not fall anywhere. So, I am stumped as to what the problem is here.
Can't proceed any further.
Alan

9dreizig 03-10-2008 01:57 PM

where are you located??

beepbeep 03-10-2008 02:01 PM

Hello!

I see no problem in using thinner spring-damped clutch disc as long as friction part is roughly as thich as old rubber-damped one. Only point of contact that clutch disc has is splined hole and friction surface. So as long as friction part is as thick as old one, you shouldn't have problems.

But if you bolted pressure-plate off center, your throwout arm will have hard time pulling the throwout bearing...it must be dead-center.

les_garten 03-10-2008 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan L (Post 3819703)
When I looked at assembly, thru one of the housing slots, the fork was properly located on the lugs on throw out bearing.
Can you just bolt pressure plate back on without the metal tabs?
I have just inserted a spring friction plate (Pelican) but re used all the other 930 bits.
Replaced the broken rubber centre plate with spring plate.
Have I done something wrong?
Alan

Did you use new Pressure plate bolts?

Alan L 03-10-2008 03:44 PM

I'm in New Zealand - a wee way away.
I used the old presure plate bolts.
The friction plate surface looked about the same as old one - altho, being new, I did not measure it.
Would it appear I have done nothing obviously wrong, and it all should work?
In which case I should be looking for something as Goran says - poor alignment?
It seemed well aligned - I made up a tool that was good to a few thou for pilot bearing and spline on clutch.
Any ideas how I can check Gorans idea?
Or should I just pull the engine and bolt it all up again.
If it is just an assembly problem, that may fix it. If it is something fundamentally wrong, I'll still have the same issue.
Thanks
Alan

les_garten 03-10-2008 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan L (Post 3820034)
I'm in New Zealand - a wee way away.
I used the old presure plate bolts.
The friction plate surface looked about the same as old one - altho, being new, I did not measure it.
Would it appear I have done nothing obviously wrong, and it all should work?
In which case I should be looking for something as Goran says - poor alignment?
It seemed well aligned - I made up a tool that was good to a few thou for pilot bearing and spline on clutch.
Any ideas how I can check Gorans idea?
Or should I just pull the engine and bolt it all up again.
If it is just an assembly problem, that may fix it. If it is something fundamentally wrong, I'll still have the same issue.
Thanks
Alan

Hi,
Sounds like you are coming back apart possibly. The PP and Flywheel bolts can only be torqued once. If you've ever seen what can happen when these things let go, you would never re-use them. I'm talking death here. Flywheels can fly a block or two if that gives you an idea. I saw a house after the Flywheel exited the bell housing, hood and garage roof and was found about 100 yards away.

AngM018 03-10-2008 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten (Post 3820117)
Hi,
Sounds like you are coming back apart possibly. The PP and Flywheel bolts can only be torqued once. If you've ever seen what can happen when these things let go, you would never re-use them.

Is this true? does everyone swap out the pressure plate bolts, just like the flywheel bolts?

AngM018 03-10-2008 05:55 PM

double post, sorry. itchy trigger finger...

356-930 03-10-2008 06:00 PM

Your problem may be that when mating the transaxle to the engine, the fork that actuates the throw out bearing did not properly engage the throw out bearing (TOB). The fork can appear to be in place through the inspection window on top of the transaxle and there will be appropriate free play between the fork and upper TOB arm. The notch in the fork should align perfectly with the TOB arm and stay in that location whether loaded or unloaded. If the fork appears to slide on the TOB arm, the fork is not properly engaged. (I know this because itís but one of many mistakes Iíve made in assembling my vehicle.)

Alan L 03-10-2008 06:49 PM

OK - so it sounds like I should be looking closely at the fork and lugs on the TOB.
What are the symptoms of it not properly aligned/engaged?
I agree about flywheel bolts - I always replace, and loctite - but not heard of the pressure plate bolts doing same. This problem has occured directly after assembly - the engine has not been run. Still only partly installed - not sure whether it is going in, or coming out.
Thanks
Alan

Wolf300tt 03-10-2008 07:41 PM

+1 on what 356-930 said. If the fork is not correctly aligned, the result is very little pedal travel+stiff movement. Pull it. (Go ahead......ask me how I know)

Alan L 03-10-2008 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf300tt (Post 3820503)
+1 on what 356-930 said. If the fork is not correctly aligned, the result is very little pedal travel+stiff movement. Pull it. (Go ahead......ask me how I know)

Hmm - now we seem to be getting somewhere. This is precisely the symptom.
Can't work out how this all happens - given it 'seemed' aligned.
What are you looking for to get it 'precisely' aligned. What is the procedure or trick?
Thanks
Alan

930gt-40r 03-10-2008 07:50 PM

yea, the pedal gets pretty stiff when the fork is up against the bell housing....
sorta screws with the adjustment too.

les_garten 03-10-2008 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngM018 (Post 3820262)
Is this true? does everyone swap out the pressure plate bolts, just like the flywheel bolts?

Hello,
Nobody seems to be backing me up on this. Here's a link:

http://www.carolinaclutch.com/content/ford-luk_upgrade.htm.aspx

I cut my teeth on other types of vehicles before I got the cojones to work on 930 motors, so not all my input will be solely Porsche related. However, Torque is Torque.

Here's the deal. A lot of Bolts have a lot of tensile strength but are not that strong with relation to shear strength. Grade 8 bolts are very strong in relation to shear and tensile strength. You most likely can use any grade 8 bolt for your Pressure Plate. That's what I've used in the past for other clutches. Hope this helps. Your PP lies in between the Engine/Flywheel and the tranny. There is one hell of a lot of shear acting on those bolts.


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