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Thoughts on oil restrictors

After ~1000 miles of running my rebuilt 930 motor with the cam line restrictors I have the following data and advice.... Data:

1) idle oil pressure when cold never went below 3.5 on the gauge.
2) warm idle oil pressure ~2 on the gauge.
3) gauge will 'peg' at ~1500 rpm, cold or warm.
4) even with oil level at the low mark on the dipstick, oil pressure same as above - I used rotella 15W-40 exculsively

IMO oil pressure is waaay too high in every situation, but based on the advice of some professionals (both on this forum and off), I kept the restrictors in.

Last week, while driving in town at speeds below 45mph (basically rpm below 5K), my car started the mosquito fog. The K-27 I have was ~1.5 yrs old with less than 2K miles on it. I got around to pulling it today, and the seal on the compressor side is gone. There was a big puddle of oil in the compressor when I shined a light down after removing the I/C.

IMO, this is a DIRECT result of the restrictors - in preventing the significant volume of oil from reaching the cam towers, they over-oiled the turbo. I did rebuild and check the scavage pump with the rest of the motor, and using a beaker I verified that it was working well.

Others here are also against using these restrictors - I'll offer that I've decided that they are big trouble in a turbo car.

Pat K
87 930
Old 03-22-2008, 05:16 PM
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one of the great unwashed
 
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I put restrictors in the 3.0 when I first did the turbo conversion, and I also had oil problems, but those were specifc to my Rajay drain system. I have installed an 0.080" restrictor with a downstream needle valve in the oil feed to the turbo. I think it's kind of difficult to over-oil a Rajay.

Related to your comments, when I had the engine apart after the rebuild for ring issues, I didn't like the way the cams were scuffing in. I think it made the car run a smidge hotter also. So, I ditched the restrictors. I'll check the cams at the next valve adjust.

There is a pretty good thread about these restrictors in the tech forum, mostly written by Grady Clay.

Pat
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Old 03-22-2008, 07:20 PM
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There is an excellent, excellent thread running on Pelican right now that should be required reading for everyone. It is a bit redundant at times, but very good information nonetheless.

Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

Read and make your own decision based on the camshaft to rocker research that's been done. Personally, I don't use 'em, and this has been discussed to death in a couple of posts. Some people have even gone as far as splitting the differance between the two types of orifices by drilling out the new restrictors a little more.
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 03-23-2008, 05:59 AM
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I had to pull off the restrictors on mine. as soon as the engine got to operating temps, I started crop dusting. Now that they are off, no issues what so ever.
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John A.
1979 Porsche 930: 3.4L, SC cams, Twin plug, Leask WUR, Custom SSI turbo exhaust, Tial WG, K27HFS, and we can't forget the Zork (short lived depending on my homeowners assoc.)
05 Boxster S: For the Track.
06 Dodge Ram 2500 Power Wagon: Tow Vehicle
Old 03-23-2008, 09:23 AM
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This is a good discussion, I too used oil restrictors until my last engine, and found during the tear down, very odd signs of dramatic wear on rockers and cam lobes. The wear detail on the rocker shafts were worn beyond use, as well the rockers. The cams had abnormal wear on the lobes, the lobes were whithin spec but looked as if there was lack of oil. There were no grooves or failures just extreme wear. This motor had about 80,000 on the top end. So with this current motor I used a GT3 pump and ran -6 lines from the case to the oil towers and no restrictors. I have 6 bar @ start-up and 3.5 bar after warmed up at idle. I also see 6 bar at speed. There are no extra shims under the relief springs (although I did plan on putting some if the oil pressure was too low) and I am running twin turbos with gravity drains to the timing covers. Monitoring the valvetrain while during valve adjustments have shown nicely polished lobes and rocker pads. I would have to say I will never use oil restrictors again. If the oil pressure was too low then a simple shim under the oil pressure relief spring to bring the oil pressure to where I want it. I wouldn't say this is a good bases but one to add.
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Old 03-23-2008, 11:34 AM
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Update - I had the turbo out yesterday. Today I checked it, and found no play in the shaft. I pulled the compressor housing and cleaned all of the oil, then re-assembled everything, including removing the oil restrictors, based on John A's post above. I ran the car for ~25 min. - no smoke, very acceptable oil pressures (~3 bar cold and 1.8 bar warm at idle), and apparently a smoother running car.

FWIW....

Pat K
87 930 Slant
Old 03-23-2008, 02:27 PM
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I have a 3.2 carrera. I went to see a chap local to me who had his G50 3.2 engine rebuilt. He told me he had these restrictors fitted and I thought he had got it wrong! I just cannot see why I would need them in either of my cars and I told him this also.

The actual cam spray bars have very small holes in them. I would want all the oil pressure at these holes spraying oil on to my parts. Having more pressure at a restrictor and even less pressure than normal at the spray bars just seems stupid to me.
Also, if the restrictor gets blocked then that will be the end of that side of the engines valve gear, you may not even be able to drive home. Now, if one or even two of those cam spray bar holes get blocked nothing would probably even get damaged, might just hear that something is wrong.

Opinions?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 03-23-2008 at 05:06 PM..
Old 03-23-2008, 04:15 PM
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I too thought I blew my turbo seals, as this was the obvious culprit for the smoke. I started with only pulling the passenger side oil restrictor as it was the most accessible. The smoke wasn't nearly as bad. I then pulled the drivers side, and the engine never smoked again. I was running a modified oil pump that had extra flow. I spoke with a local 930 guy (sand_man) and he had also heard restrictors on a turbo application were not recommended. I should of asked him before even installing. All is good now though.
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John A.
1979 Porsche 930: 3.4L, SC cams, Twin plug, Leask WUR, Custom SSI turbo exhaust, Tial WG, K27HFS, and we can't forget the Zork (short lived depending on my homeowners assoc.)
05 Boxster S: For the Track.
06 Dodge Ram 2500 Power Wagon: Tow Vehicle
Old 03-23-2008, 08:25 PM
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Can you see a need for them in a NA car?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-24-2008, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUK View Post
Can you see a need for them in a NA car?
The engineers at Porsche seemed to think so...
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John A.
1979 Porsche 930: 3.4L, SC cams, Twin plug, Leask WUR, Custom SSI turbo exhaust, Tial WG, K27HFS, and we can't forget the Zork (short lived depending on my homeowners assoc.)
05 Boxster S: For the Track.
06 Dodge Ram 2500 Power Wagon: Tow Vehicle
Old 03-24-2008, 05:57 PM
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Are you saying cars came with them from the factory? Or replacement engines from the factory were fitted with them?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-25-2008, 11:45 AM
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I think the 964 series engines were the first to have them built in during production.
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 03-25-2008, 12:14 PM
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they were introduced in 1991, on the turbo engines
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John A.
1979 Porsche 930: 3.4L, SC cams, Twin plug, Leask WUR, Custom SSI turbo exhaust, Tial WG, K27HFS, and we can't forget the Zork (short lived depending on my homeowners assoc.)
05 Boxster S: For the Track.
06 Dodge Ram 2500 Power Wagon: Tow Vehicle
Old 03-25-2008, 05:26 PM
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They also fitted the Dual Mass Flywheels to the 964 that were not reliable
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 03-27-2008, 11:07 AM
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Opinions are mixed at best with these restrictors - some of the Pelican old guard swear by them while others swear at them.

IMO the potential for both development of leaks due to increased oil pressure and the potential for cam/rocker wear due to heat because of limited oil supply (there 'might' be plenty of oil for lubrication, but these parts are also cooled by oil - it seems that lower flow would not be a positive thing) outweigh the foaming issue some see with the 'normal' parts. I think this applies to any motor - the turbo oil feed's increased volume and associated problems only add to the issues.

YMMV.

Pat K
87 930
Old 03-27-2008, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUK View Post
They also fitted the Dual Mass Flywheels to the 964 that were not reliable
touche!

well i now know I will never put these on a turbo application again. I will let the folks on the 911 forum battle it out for NA cars. It just worries me that Pelican promotes this upgrade (or downgrade) for all applications. I think enough pro engine builders have backed this, thus it must not be all bad (for the NA guys of course)...

They were cheap for 911 standards! maybe I can melt them down, cuz it definitely is not worth re-selling/shipping.
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John A.
1979 Porsche 930: 3.4L, SC cams, Twin plug, Leask WUR, Custom SSI turbo exhaust, Tial WG, K27HFS, and we can't forget the Zork (short lived depending on my homeowners assoc.)
05 Boxster S: For the Track.
06 Dodge Ram 2500 Power Wagon: Tow Vehicle
Old 03-27-2008, 06:19 PM
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Anyone - in a couple of words, what is the real benefit of the restrictors?
Old 03-28-2008, 06:24 AM
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If you have low oil pressure, then these restrictors are not gonna fix the real problem. The only benefit I see with these is increasing the flow to other points on the engine at the detriment of the rockers and cam lobes. The real restriction is the spray bars since they have really small holes that aim onto the rockers for lube and cooling.....so why risk reducing flow further with the restrictors?
Why risk it......the only way to know for sure is to see a scientific test run back to back with these restrictors installed and not installed EVERYTHING ELSE BEING THE SAME. WHICH INCLUDES PRISTINE UNBLOCKED SPRAY BARS, which more times than not is the reason for cam and rocker scuffing.
Just my opinion.
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 03-28-2008, 07:48 AM
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I can vouch how small those holes are in the spray bars, in case anyone out there doesn't know. There are a lot of holes in the bars that need oil.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 04-01-2008 at 12:51 PM..
Old 03-31-2008, 01:07 PM
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7-8-10-This is an amazing blog. Perhaps a new edition of Porsche 911 Engines, 1965-1989 should put in the reported down side; the up side being reduced foaming and "reduced oil losses through the crankcase breather system." There should perhaps be a scientific comparison not only of the pressure at warm idle, but the pressure at the cam lobes should be exactly measured on a number of engines, NA and Turbo/ or forced induction. -- Zioo
Old 07-08-2010, 03:51 PM
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