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Nissan

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Originally Posted by tfulmer1 View Post
Ouch. A little bias here don't you think?

I personally feel the Nissan simply kicks porsche's ass here. Porsche should be damn embarrassed. I am feeling the late 80s all over again for Porsche.

Is it heavy, yes. Is it ugly, I hate to say it but yes. But I can gaurantee that you guys rest your laurels on Porsche racing success. I love the 930 since it is the first car to successfully use a turbo to kick ass. I give it all of that credit, but you need to give Nissan credit too. (BTW I own a 89 930 cab)

Nissan GTP kicks the venerable 962 to the curb. Nissan 300zx TT drastically hurt porsche in the early 90s. Even the first Z beat the venerable 911 in its day for much less money. The difference as to why they will never be coveted is that we associate success with cash and rarity. Not everyone can afford the 911 so it gets raised on a pedastal....just like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Pagani..etc. Nissan simply shows that they can beat the worlds best at a reasonable price. Porsche and Ferrari could also sell their cars for less money by selling more units, but it would kill the exclusivity that makes the marks. It would crush all of the arogant owners that support their business.

I still love the Porsche and I consider it my Family rocket (It has back seats)

I love my TT ZX because it is a great comfortable driver.

I admire my Ferrari because it is a no comprise drivers car.

All are great in there own way, but damn give Nissan some credit here!

PS. Why compare it to a GT2? Do you really want some Nissan tuner to change the chip in the car so it kicks its ass too? That will crush more Porsche egos. Be glad they haven't compared the two.
Not crushing any ego's here. Sure I give them credit, any auto manufacturer can build a fast car if that is their goal. Lets see how long it stays in production!


The 962/956 came before the Nissan GTP, so it is much easier to take an existing race car, and design something better, and I really don't even think it was better, by the time the Nissan GTP came the intakes on the 962 were so restricted I'm surpriused it still ran. In addition to the smaller intake, they also added weight to slow it down. I'm sure if it was reversed Porsche could have done the same, and they did with the 917. Same goes for the Nissan street car, I think any builder, given the right resources could build a faster car. But to stay on top, year after year as the benchmark for all others to follow, I do not see the Nissan's, Chevrolets, Fords doing that, (although the Vettes still hold their own). Lets see how long this car stays in production. Sure they come out with a car every so often that competes, but year after year like Porsche does, ha! The GTR (or what ever it's called) will be gone in a few years, just like the NSX, the M1 and all the others that I have forgotten, but the 911 in it's various forms will still be the benchmark to beat.

Look at what the've done to the Spyders so they don't dominate LMP1. I wonder if they have applied the same restrictions to the others in LMP2?


Porsche, Nothing even comes close.
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Old 04-02-2008, 08:18 PM
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Actually, GT3RS weighs just about identical to the Z06

Z06: 3190 lbs
GT3: 3133 with 1/2 tank
~~~~
BUT, once you open your eyes after that great lap whoopin' the Poosha.......it is SO DAMN UGLY IN EVERY WAY.
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Old 04-02-2008, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
Actually, GT3RS weighs just about identical to the Z06

Z06: 3190 lbs
GT3: 3133 with 1/2 tank
~~~~
BUT, once you open your eyes after that great lap whoopin' the Poosha.......it is SO DAMN UGLY IN EVERY WAY.
Yeah, but it should be the weight of a race car. It ain't even close. What is it about a GT3RS that weighs a thousand pounds more than a Lotus?

Those Ferraris are putting the pain on us every weekend in GT racing.

It is frankly an embarrassing time to be a porsche fanatic. We are a benchmark that is being trampled on at every angle. Even Audi. Blah.

And yeah the Nissan is ugly.

At some point Porsche needs to go back to setting the pace, not just gaining weight.
Old 04-02-2008, 08:46 PM
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Uh, it's a modern, safe, fairly luxuriousHIGH HP vehicle with AWD....
~~~~~~
AND they should have used THIS in that lovely comparison:
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Old 04-02-2008, 08:51 PM
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I hate Japanese cars- to me they are the same philosphy as the vettes: Cheap garbage like materials and a big motor. BUT... Porsche got their @SS handed to them hands down. I hate to say it and I will still make fun of the ugly styling of the Skyline. But the thing is that Porsche set the benchmark and Nissan jumped over it. No doubt there is likely a nice new 997 twinturbo chillin in Nissan's R&D department in nothing but shell form...
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:03 PM
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nissan

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Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
No doubt there is likely a nice new 997 twinturbo chillin in Nissan's R&D department in nothing but shell form...

yep!
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:22 PM
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[QUOTE=Craig 930 RS;3866022]Uh, it's a modern, safe, fairly luxuriousHIGH HP vehicle with AWD


Funny that I remember you saying about a week ago that GT3 owners are flat pissed about the weight of their vehicle.
Old 04-02-2008, 09:42 PM
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I recently sold my beautiful 930 as most here know. Whilst I loved that car, even after a slight bingle, I have, after going for a drive and driving one, had a inkling for a GT3. Not a new one, but a 2001 GT3. I was impressed with the way it done everything my 930 struggled to do, except accelerate of course. The brakes, handling, and just the overall appearance of the car. Yes I realise the difference in years etc, but still, there really is no other car like a fine 911. I have to disagree that Porsche have become lazy, if anything they have produced an awesome machine with road manners to match. Any car maker can stick a big powerful engine up front driving four wheels. Get them to make one with power out the back end and drive all four, then see how they do. The 911 has always been the envy of ALL car makers.

Last edited by dewolf; 04-02-2008 at 10:15 PM..
Old 04-02-2008, 10:12 PM
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While being a nice car the 911 is far from a great car. The reason it has "stood the test of time", "has been around for ever", etc is that Porsche wouldn't let go of the crappy design. There is one car left in this world that that has the engine hanging out behind the rear wheels. Everyone else figured it out a long time ago. It ain't that fast. But it sure is nostalgic, though. If Porsche had put all the effort they put into the 911 imagine what could be done. The Japanese and the american's (to a small degree) change up their offerings from time to time. POrsche has offered basically the same package for almost 50 years. What other manufacture would do something like that?

Now the Nissan is one ugly sum*****, but they must be doing something right. Five seconds ain't nothing to sneeze at. Wonder what the new ZR1 will do? Funny when it was built the NSX was a much better car than the same year Porsche.

According to KBB.com the 1992 NSX holds its value better than a 1992 911. But the Nissan didn't hold any value. Go figure. Too bad Honda didn't design the GTR, maybe it would look better (probably not), but it would be a better car.
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboteener View Post
While being a nice car the 911 is far from a great car. The reason it has "stood the test of time", "has been around for ever", etc is that Porsche wouldn't let go of the crappy design.

Crappy design, what are you smoking?

There is one car left in this world that that has the engine hanging out behind the rear wheels. Everyone else figured it out a long time ago. It ain't that fast.
Oh really, was your grandma driving the one you went in?

But it sure is nostalgic, though. If Porsche had put all the effort they put into the 911 imagine what could be done.
Yes, the worlds best sports car as reported by most motoring journo's

What other manufacture would do something like that?
Smart ones

.
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowtown10 View Post
As I understand the 997 T is "softer" compared to the 996 T.
A better track test comparison would be the GT3 or GT3 RS.

I agree the Nissan is not my thing but for the money and the performance they are achieving that is one hell of a package.
EVO did a comparison test against the GT3 and the GT-R was 1 sec faster around their road course...
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/217977/nissan_gtr_v_porsche_gt3.html

Pretty damn impressive for such a heavy car...
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Old 04-03-2008, 01:55 AM
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I believe that for quite some time Porsche has lost track,,..Of what we want.!! an other car in 30 years that will beat the crap out of a current model !!
As for its contemporaries the market will / ought to solve it..Make a better car people will buy it !! Who wouldn't ??
Porsche needs to let the SUV, the weird middle market go..........But you know, looking back they have always been there in the middle, with the teeners in the middle with a current version of a 911 in the front.
So they got there butt kicked,. GOOD ! Now maybe their attn has been notified..Hope so, pretty soon I will want an other old car that can kick BUTT
Old 04-03-2008, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
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Porsche

HUH? Please enlighten me as to why having a 500lb weight hanging 30inches behind the rear axle is good engineering?
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:19 PM
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I dont think that describes the engine placement......
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by turboteener View Post
HUH? Please enlighten me as to why having a 500lb weight hanging 30inches behind the rear axle is good engineering?
Perhaps you can explain why it isn't, and then let the engineers at Porsche, RUF and all the other tuners know that they have got it all wrong. All the late model cars I have been in and driven have handled extremely well when driven by a competent driver.

An old clip but good driving skill in a well prepped car. "It ain't that fast" , no it's insanely fast.

http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=1211

Last edited by dewolf; 04-04-2008 at 02:26 AM..
Old 04-03-2008, 08:59 PM
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At least Nissan, Corvette, Audi, and Ferrari (amoung others) can claim that they are not holding back and compromising their products in order to make excess profits. Porsche is the most profitable car company on earth because of a reputation that they earned 30 years ago, but have done NOTHING to maintain in the last decade.

I can dig up youtube footage of lots of cars going fast. What once seperated Porsche from the rest is that they went FASTER. That was what justified all the outrageous expenses that goes along with owning a Porsche. It wasn't luxury interiors, quite the opposite. It wasn't heavy AWD, it wasn't computer navagation or PASM suspensions which interfere with tuning the chassis. It wasn't complicated black box EFI. IT WAS LESS WEIGHT, BETTER HANDLING AND MORE ACCELERATION. The only way to achieve that today is to build a mid-engine car aimed at kicking Ferrari out of GT racing and staying ahead of Japanese gadget cars.

Gee, I can't wait for the next generation of Porsches. A hybrid volkswagon minivan, a re-hashed 928 sedan, but with four doors this time, a heavier, fatter, more costly 998TT, and a brilliant mid-engine Cayman with 297 horsepower instead of 295.

And in the meantime, we get to watch Porsche lose tons of races. Swell.
Old 04-04-2008, 07:27 AM
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Well why doesn't Porsche go back to how they got their reputation? What are the economical aspects that prevent them? And are they that great to the point where they can rest upon their laurels and say, "I've accomplished all that is destined for me..." I think not.

Have they lost the soul that gave them the brass to campaign the 934 and 935, the mighty 917/30?

Think for a minute how far ahead of the curve Porsche would be if they could but only see what their enthusiasts are doing, fitting huge modern HP monsters into light weight, minimal creature comfort shells with updated/modernized RSR style suspensions and carbon fiber bucket seats.

Just think what Porsche could accomplish if they only applied the soul that has taken them thus far, adding lightness not technology (a la 959), yielding more power with smaller displacement turbo motors, financially speaking they have the means and are no longer in trouble...so what impeades them from grabbing the reins?

Is the soul dying?


I pray for my children's sake, endevors as seen below will not just be relics in museaums, but forefathers of even more powerful, soul driven pursuits...
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Old 04-04-2008, 08:03 AM
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[QUOTE=Reaper930;3867504]Well why doesn't Porsche go back to how they got their reputation? What are the economical aspects that prevent them? And are they that great to the point where they can rest upon their laurels and say, "I've accomplished all that is destined for me..." I think not.

Have they lost the soul that gave them the brass to campaign the 934 and 935, the mighty 917/30?

Think for a minute how far ahead of the curve Porsche would be if they could but only see what their enthusiasts are doing, fitting huge modern HP monsters into light weight, minimal creature comfort shells with updated/modernized RSR style suspensions and carbon fiber bucket seats.

Just think what Porsche could accomplish if they only applied the soul that has taken them thus far, adding lightness not technology (a la 959), yielding more power with smaller displacement turbo motors, financially speaking they have the means and are no longer in trouble...so what impeades them from grabbing the reins?

Is the soul dying?


I pray for my children's sake, endevors as seen below will not just be relics in museaums, but forefathers of even more powerful, soul driven pursuits...



YOU NAILED THAT ONE OUT OF THE BALLPARK, BROTHER!!!
Old 04-04-2008, 10:11 AM
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Food for thought:

'97 997tt - 3710 pounds, 480CHP (408WHP) = 7.7 pounds/HP
80's 930 - 2700 pounds, 350CHP (300WHP) = 7.7 pounds/HP

With a few relatively inexpensive bolt-ons we all have supercars.

.
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:39 AM
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Porsche builds what people want. This group probably represents 10% of its buyers. Very few people that spend $80K+ on a car want a vehicle with minimal sound insulation, non electric everything, poor HVAC, the list goes on.

To all that think the 911 is not an inherently less stable platform, I am not sure what to say. Study physics? Read how Porsche thought the same, but the 911 continued to sell so they decided to just give people what they want.
Yeah, it has been made to perform well, but will still show its "teeth"
If hanging a large mass of weight over your rear axle was good practice, most pure race cars should look much different. The same goes for hanging a lot of weight over your front axle.

Porsche and its tuners stay with the 911 because it makes money and its buyers have money to spend. They wouldn't continue tuning 911 if nobody bought them.

I like Porsches (a lot), but I like cars more. This whole post smells of Porsche smugness. They are not some unbeatable force of nature.
Old 04-04-2008, 11:01 AM
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