Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,190
Well done - they look pretty good. If you want to be finnicky - since you are in there - you could adjust #5. Unfortunately I think it is one of the harder caps to undo - depends on the angles your banjos are set at. You can loosen them off and twist slightly if necessary. You would 'tighten' the screw in the chamber by about 1/8 turn. You only need to check it against 4 and 6 since your 1-3 are in range too. But still collect the fuel in 1-3 - or else you will hydraulic the motor. These screws press on the spring that holds the little ceramic cups against the fuel head diaphragm.
Regards
Alan
Old 04-11-2008, 01:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,190
If you look in the lower pic, you can see where the screw exits into the chamber - at the edge of the chamber on a 45 deg angle - on to the spring base.
External rust spot on injector - forget about it. If the spray patterns are nice cones, you will have a beautifully balanced set of fine injectors - which should make your car very tunable, and smooth.
Alan
Old 04-11-2008, 01:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Macht Schnell
 
les_garten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiegel360 View Post
Thanks Les. Yesterday I was concerned about cruising at 2500-2800-rpm's with a 14.3-14.8 afr.Thought it was too lean. But at 3000-3500 it was 13.8- 14.1. Which is where I should, so do you think there is a problem with 14.3-14.8 at 2500?......Actually, I see what you are saying. There is no adjustment that will change the 2000-3000 range without changing the 3000-3500 range.
Hi Doug,
The 930 is so low in compression, that if it is not on boost, there is nothing wrong with a perfect mix of 14.7. The issue is when you are boosting and your effective compression ratio increases rapidly to put you in the "Detonation Zone".


Let's say, you took the turbo off. There would be nothing wrong with running that engine at 7000 RPM on pump gas at 14.7 AFR. As long as it would handle acceleration enrichment, and starting enrichment, it would be fine.

Throw in some boost and the scenario changes rapidly...

I have your CD by the way. I'll get it out next week. Thanx for the MUSIC!
__________________
---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 04-11-2008, 03:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
Alan,
Thanks for the pics. #5 in other tests proved equal to the others. Perhaps the angle of the bottle allowed fluid to escape. I don't think I was able to adequately see the spray patterns but there was certainly none that seemed like dribble. I posted a question regarding fuel injection cleaner. Would you put it in your tank?

Les,
Your explanation about 14.7 cruise has clarified a lot of concerns. My car is running leaner than had been recommended by Leask and Bodart, but upon boost I am still richer than 11.8-12.1. I'm still adjusting the WUR and RPM solenoid. In the 14's, i am getting lots of burping on deceleration, which I guess I am to expect with this car... Is 14.7 the absolute leanest it should be at cruise or is it the average with a +- of 3?
Old 04-11-2008, 04:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,190
If they are not firing a nice cone, then you will quickly see. When they are firing a nice cone, depending on the light, you sometimes have to look closely to see it. So, if you were having trouble spotting the pattern, I suspect they were nice fine cones - almost a mist. When they go off, you see streaks of fuel. Easy to spot.
Have no experience of injector cleaner in the fuel tank - never used it. Sorry.
Alan
Old 04-11-2008, 08:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
I assume that if there is clogging, at low fuel pressure the mist might be dribble while at high pressure it might look nearly perfect. I want to test them properly but I think it is either a 2 person job or in need of a proper tool. I didn't see any steaks of fuel but I couldn't make a proper study of it. Thank you for your help. I might never have thought of testing the injectors or fuel head.
Old 04-12-2008, 04:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,190
The injectors definitely do deteriorate in performance over time. (I am not a professional injector service guy - just someone who has spent some time fiddling with them on my various CIS Porsches). The two common problems are fouling with fuel deposit (cleaning them can help this - the best claims to improvement I have seen posted is the ultrasonic process). And over time the heat damages the internal springs which cause the pintel (nozzle) to resonate at very high frequency. In either case, you will get a deterioration in fuel pattern. The other thing to monitor (usually while testing pattern) is the opening pressure - there is a specified range. But whenever I have seen poor injectors the spray pattern is quite obvious - it shoots out to one side or parts of - rather than a nice 360 deg cone.
I suspect many of the stubborn tuning problems (hesitation under light throttle etc) are due to imperfect fuel flow (rates or pattern) at the injector.
Alan
Old 04-12-2008, 11:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Macht Schnell
 
les_garten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiegel360 View Post


Les,
Your explanation about 14.7 cruise has clarified a lot of concerns. My car is running leaner than had been recommended by Leask and Bodart, but upon boost I am still richer than 11.8-12.1. I'm still adjusting the WUR and RPM solenoid. In the 14's, i am getting lots of burping on deceleration, which I guess I am to expect with this car... Is 14.7 the absolute leanest it should be at cruise or is it the average with a +- of 3?
Some would say that factory EFI cars cruise leaner than 14.7, but it's not something I would look to do.

The popping on decel is a 930 thing that I don't believe you can get rid of with CIS. An EFI car does not have the popping(If it is setup properly). When you back out of the throttle, you cut off the air and you should see your AFR dive down towards 9 or 10 when it's popping. The way EFI takes care of this is that it cuts the fuel to the injectors and they actually go lean on throttle over run.
__________________
---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 04-13-2008, 08:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
Some would say that factory EFI cars cruise leaner than 14.7, but it's not something I would look to do.

The popping on decel is a 930 thing that I don't believe you can get rid of with CIS. An EFI car does not have the popping(If it is setup properly). When you back out of the throttle, you cut off the air and you should see your AFR dive down towards 9 or 10 when it's popping. The way EFI takes care of this is that it cuts the fuel to the injectors and they actually go lean on throttle over run.
Les,
Actually, the AFR goes way lean when I back off....16 or 17.

How does the BOV function in this process?

On regular road driving, in normal traffic conditions, rather than just letting off the throttle, I throw it in N and wear out the brakes. I'll save lean conditions for the twisities.
Old 04-14-2008, 04:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Macht Schnell
 
les_garten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiegel360 View Post
Les,
Actually, the AFR goes way lean when I back off....16 or 17.

How does the BOV function in this process?

On regular road driving, in normal traffic conditions, rather than just letting off the throttle, I throw it in N and wear out the brakes. I'll save lean conditions for the twisities.
Hi,
The BOV doesn't have anything to do with the popping, it is just re-circulating or shuttling your intake charge in a circle to keep from putting back pressure on the compressor wheel.
__________________
---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 04-14-2008, 06:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:05 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.