Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
Msd 6al 6462

Any of you guys using this ignition? It is a digital unit that can retard timing under boost up to 20 degrees. Thus timing can be set to come in earlier. It is a digital recurve for the regular dizzy.

Is this product safe for our 930's or am I gonna blow myself up trying to find out?

Old 04-15-2008, 11:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Acceleration Junkie
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Laguna Beach, CA
Posts: 263
Garage
I run one on my 930 engine. It is not a digital re-curve of the distributor. It interrupts the signal from the distributor to the coil to delay its firing based on what the user dials into the equation.
Old 04-15-2008, 12:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
rsrfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Siesta Key, Florida
Posts: 1,237
Real world benefits? Genuinely curious.

JP
__________________
JP
86 930/4 tribute beasty
81 sc beach beater
‘55 Belair
‘40 Ford pickup
Old 04-15-2008, 12:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by 356-930 View Post
I run one on my 930 engine. It is not a digital re-curve of the distributor. It interrupts the signal from the distributor to the coil to delay its firing based on what the user dials into the equation.
Does it give you more flexibility with timing at low rpm's? Would you recommend this MSD over the others?
Old 04-15-2008, 01:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Acceleration Junkie
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Laguna Beach, CA
Posts: 263
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsrfan View Post
Real world benefits? Genuinely curious.

JP
You get to run a lot of initial timing which wakes up power at low rpm, no boost. As soon as boost comes in, you can take out the timing which will help prevent detonation that could result from too much timing under boost.
Forgot to answer dsieigel360's question, "Is this product safe for our 930's or am I gonna blow myself up trying to find out?" It's safe and you won't blow yourself up trying to find out. You will however get thrown across the garage if you grab one of the plug wires while cranking the engine with the ignition on.
Old 04-15-2008, 01:07 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Acceleration Junkie
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Laguna Beach, CA
Posts: 263
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiegel360 View Post
Does it give you more flexibility with timing at low rpm's? Would you recommend this MSD over the others?
It is a boost controlled device. No control over timing until engine goes into boost and is limited to pulling out 3 deg per psi, 20 deg max.
Old 04-15-2008, 01:13 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
rsrfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Siesta Key, Florida
Posts: 1,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by 356-930 View Post
You get to run a lot of initial timing which wakes up power at low rpm, no boost. As soon as boost comes in, you can take out the timing which will help prevent detonation that could result from too much timing under boost.

Man that sounds great. I assume that timing was set on a dyno. Would you be willing to share your settings or at least a baseline to get one started.

Thanks for all your help. This is really interesting.

JP
__________________
JP
86 930/4 tribute beasty
81 sc beach beater
‘55 Belair
‘40 Ford pickup
Old 04-15-2008, 01:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Acceleration Junkie
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Laguna Beach, CA
Posts: 263
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsrfan View Post
Man that sounds great. I assume that timing was set on a dyno. Would you be willing to share your settings or at least a baseline to get one started.

Thanks for all your help. This is really interesting.

JP
Sorry, not on a dyno, simply seat of pants.
Stock 3.3 liter 930 with SC cams, no intercooler:
0.8 bar boost, no vac advance, 28 deg at idle, 46 deg at 4000 rpm, 38 deg at full boost. (With vac advance, timing as adjusted would be 8 deg advance.)
1 bar boost with vac advance, 2 deg advance, 40 deg at 4000 rpm, 29 deg under full boost. Don't know if this timing is optimal but not willing to pull the pin on the grenade in the back seat to find out.
With a handle on AFR, one needs a dyno to establish optimum advance/retard equation. Having ability to monitor knock (detonation) would help minimize dyno time and resultant engine wear and tear too.
Old 04-15-2008, 02:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
356-930,
Thanks for shedding light on this.

How does this MSD recognize boost?

According to the porsche manuals, my 88 is supposed to be set at 25-27 degrees at 4000rpm's (with advance and retard lines pulled off and plugged). After set and lines put back on, warm idle is at TDC.

With the MSD I can run several degrees ATDC?

I don't really understand "3 deg per psi, 20 deg max." Does this mean that... if at idle- TDC gives me 26 degrees at 4000rpm (lines off and plugged), that with MSD I can get an idle of 1- 3 degrees ATDC so that the MSD can retard 1-3 degrees on boost?

If so, is this safely curved for the span between idle and boost?

I know little about distributors and timing. Thanks for the education.

Doug

Last edited by dsiegel360; 04-15-2008 at 03:21 PM..
Old 04-15-2008, 03:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Certifiable
 
Quicksilver77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 194
Send a message via Yahoo to Quicksilver77
Quote:
Originally Posted by 356-930 View Post
You will however get thrown across the garage if you grab one of the plug wires while cranking the engine with the ignition on.
LOL I almost fell off my Chair!
__________________
Sean D. 1987 930
India Red/Beige/Black; Mahle 3.4L; Kokeln IC; K27 7200; GHL Headers; Borla Stainless Muffler; SC cams; Sachs Aluminum Clutch; Aluminum flywheel; Bilstein Sport Shocks; Adjustable Rear Sway Bar; Weltmeister Shock Tower Brace; Lowered and Corner Balanced; MOMO RSGT Seats...
Old 04-15-2008, 03:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Acceleration Junkie
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Laguna Beach, CA
Posts: 263
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiegel360 View Post
356-930,
Thanks for shedding light on this.

How does this MSD recognize boost?

According to the porsche manuals, my 88 is supposed to be set at 25-27 degrees at 4000rpm's (with advance and retard lines pulled off and plugged). After set and lines put back on, warm idle is at TDC.

With the MSD I can run several degrees ATDC?

I don't really understand "3 deg per psi, 20 deg max." Does this mean that... if at idle- TDC gives me 26 degrees at 4000rpm (lines off and plugged), that with MSD I can get an idle of 1- 3 degrees ATDC so that the MSD can retard 1-3 degrees on boost?

If so, is this safely curved for the span between idle and boost?

I know little about distributors and timing. Thanks for the education.

Doug
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiegel360 View Post
356-930,
Thanks for shedding light on this.

How does this MSD recognize boost?

According to the porsche manuals, my 88 is supposed to be set at 25-27 degrees at 4000rpm's (with advance and retard lines pulled off and plugged). After set and lines put back on, warm idle is at TDC.

With the MSD I can run several degrees ATDC?

I don't really understand "3 deg per psi, 20 deg max." Does this mean that... if at idle- TDC gives me 26 degrees at 4000rpm (lines off and plugged), that with MSD I can get an idle of 1- 3 degrees ATDC so that the MSD can retard 1-3 degrees on boost?

If so, is this safely curved for the span between idle and boost?

I know little about distributors and timing. Thanks for the education.

Doug
The MSD 6AL 6462 has a timing control unit with a built in boost sensor (which you will have to plumb into your intake manifold or tee in wherever your stock boost sensor is located). The amount of retard is user controlled with two potentiometers, one on the timing module and one you can locate on/under dash - wherever you wish. The potentiometer on the timing unit is adjusted to tell the module at what pressure to begin to remove timing, the remotely located pot is used to tell the timing unit how many degrees/psi to remove.
As example, if you set the timing unit to begin retard at 6 psi and the remote to remove 2 deg per psi and you run 1-bar boost, you will have remove 14 degrees of timing at full boost.
An extreme example: Initial timing at 4000 rpm is set to 48 degrees. Set the MSD to commence boost retard at 1-psi with pull out rate of 3 deg per psi. By the time boost reaches 8-psi, timing will be 28 deg advance and remain there to full boost (20 deg max timing retard). If your distributor has a mechanical boost retard, timing would of course be further retarded with boost.
You note Porsche recommended timing at 4000, no vac/boost component should be 25-27 deg adv. You should find out how much boost retard your distributor provides. This will tell you what Porsche wants for max timing under boost, an important baseline benchmark. If not available, put the distributor on a testing machine, pressurize the boost port, see what you get.
I admittedly know little about what constitutes "safe timing" but I seriously doubt one needs to be concerned about timing below boost or "just into" boost. The higher the boost, the higher the effective compression, combustion pressure and temperature and negative consequence to the engine.
Old 04-15-2008, 04:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
356-930
I think full boost enrichment usually comes in at 6psi. (not sure). If so, should the MSD be set to begin retard at 6 psi and continue at either 1, 2, or 3 degrees per pound till 14.5 (1 bar)?

As you had mentioned, there is already a boost retard on the stock system, so, once we figure out how much, is it then just a simple equation or is the combo of the stock retard and the MSD retard a recipe for disaster?

Instead of idle at TDC as it is currently, if I set the idle timing to 3-5* ATDC, how will this affect non boost cruise at 3000 or 4000 rpm's? More power or might it miss?

When boost pressure kicks in, I've already got the stock retard. Is the only advantage to this system that at low rpm's timing can come in sooner, or does this system allow quicker timing on boost too? (I don't know if this question makes sense, but I tried.)

Thanks for your detailed answers.
__________________
88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)

Last edited by dsiegel360; 04-15-2008 at 07:05 PM..
Old 04-15-2008, 06:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Acceleration Junkie
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Laguna Beach, CA
Posts: 263
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiegel360 View Post
356-930
I think full boost enrichment usually comes in at 6psi. (not sure). If so, should the MSD be set to begin retard at 6 psi and continue at either 1, 2, or 3 degrees per pound till 14.5 (1 bar)?

As you had mentioned, there is already a boost retard on the stock system, so, once we figure out how much, is it then just a simple equation or is the combo of the stock retard and the MSD retard a recipe for disaster?

Instead of idle at TDC as it is currently, if I set the idle timing to 3-5* ATDC, how will this affect non boost cruise at 3000 or 4000 rpm's? More power or might it miss?

When boost pressure kicks in, I've already got the stock retard. Is the only advantage to this system that at low rpm's timing can come in sooner, or does this system allow quicker timing on boost too? (I don't know if this question makes sense, but I tried.)

Thanks for your detailed answers.
Doug:
I don’t know where fuel enrichment occurs relative to boost on your engine. Perhaps a Porsche manual has that info but if not, a data logging system incorporated in your engine management system will reveal that data. In fact, if you don’t have a data logger giving you AFR v EGT, Boost and RPM, you’ll remain in the dark here.
Where the boost retard starts and at what rate is going to be determined by trial and error in your tuning efforts. A dyno is nice for adjusting but not necessary (provided you have a data logger and a ½ mile strip of asphalt without ingress/egress by other vehicles and not haunted by your local or state police).
If you’re significantly advanced at 3k-4k unloaded cruise, the engine will likely mis-fire (mine does) without load but the instant any load is applied, all is well.
Adding the MSD boost retard and employing it is not a recipe for disaster. Running excess timing without boost to get low end power/torque may cause EGT to rise a bit but it won’t result is detonation, the real enemy under load. If EGT gets above 1250, probably too much timing/advance.
The MSD boost retard system won’t allow timing to come in sooner, it allows one to run more initial timing – it’s in at all times until removed by the stock retard or the MSD’s electronics. Bottom line - adding a secondary boost retard system facilitates running greater initial timing as both the stock and MSD boost retard systems work independently to remove timing under boost. Where you may have had 8-10 degrees of retard under boost, with the addition of the MSD you will have 28-30 degrees of boost driven retard available.
Think of the MSD boost retard system as a safety valve to help prevent detonation that just happens to assist with low end performance. Whatever excess timing your engine needs to wake it up at low rpm and low manifold pressure can be removed under load/boost.
Lastly, if you really want to push the timing envelope for available power under boost, add a water/methanol injection system. There are several available. I run a Snow Performance unit (I don’t have room for an intercooler so it’s my “cooler”). You can learn what the system can do by studying info on Snow’s website http://www.snowperformance.net/
Chris
Old 04-15-2008, 08:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
Chris,

My PLX system (AFR, Boost, Vac- on 1 screen )is limited when trying to manually log data. Having a passenger helps.

The Warm up regulator sets enrichment pressure when boost is pushed into the WUR port. After the heating element rises to warm temp, with CIS fuel gauge on the WUR, I can mity vac pressure into the port to find out exactly when pressure changes from 3.75 to 2.2 bar.

Can the 6462 boost retard be adjusted by the fraction? ...to come in at 6.25 psi rather than 6,7,8, etc.?

If timing is set at 26 at 4000 rpm's unplugged, is this max advance or would it continue when at 5000rpm's?

If I put mity-vac pressure into the retard side of the dizzy while at 4000 rpm's , will I see the amount of retard...without damaging anything?

I'd love to see some pics of your set up. Snow performance seems interesting.

Thanks again,

Doug
__________________
88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 04-16-2008, 04:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Acceleration Junkie
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Laguna Beach, CA
Posts: 263
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiegel360 View Post
Chris,

My PLX system (AFR, Boost, Vac- on 1 screen )is limited when trying to manually log data. Having a passenger helps.

The Warm up regulator sets enrichment pressure when boost is pushed into the WUR port. After the heating element rises to warm temp, with CIS fuel gauge on the WUR, I can mity vac pressure into the port to find out exactly when pressure changes from 3.75 to 2.2 bar.

Can the 6462 boost retard be adjusted by the fraction? ...to come in at 6.25 psi rather than 6,7,8, etc.?

If timing is set at 26 at 4000 rpm's unplugged, is this max advance or would it continue when at 5000rpm's?

If I put mity-vac pressure into the retard side of the dizzy while at 4000 rpm's , will I see the amount of retard...without damaging anything?

I'd love to see some pics of your set up. Snow performance seems interesting.

Thanks again,

Doug
Doug
Sorry I don’t know the word “mity.”
I don't believe having a passenger act as a data logger can be effective or accurate. Perhaps if they were taking a video of the gage that could be studied after the fact. You're looking for events that occur and change over a period of a few tenths of a second at best from which to make adjustments.
I don't have knowledge about the PLX unit. Perhaps it has output capable of interface with a computer?
The MSD’s onset boost retard pressure level can be infinitely set. Keep in mind the max rate of retard is 3 deg/psi. If you delay retard to begin at 10-psi you can pull out only 15 deg of timing at full boost.
Max advance will occur somewhere closer to 3500 than 4000 rpm. Distributor timing with vac/press lines removed/plugged will not increase once the distributor’s full mechanical advance is reached, likely 3500 rpm +/-. 4000 is used to be sure all mechanical adv timing is in.
No need to test distributor’s boost retard at high rpm. If you remove vac from the distributor at idle, timing will advance 20 deg and idle rate will be high, around 1500 rpm. Apply pressure to the boost retard port and monitor timing, see how much timing is removed, how much pressure it takes to retard timing. To assure loss of engine speed associated with boost retard pressure did not affect the distributor’s mechanical advance, take engine rpm back to same rpm engine ran without vac or press. On my 79-930 8 deg of timing is out at 5 psi and more pressure has no effect.
Since you asked, I’ve attached some photos but there’s not much to see. The MSD’s timing module and water/meth electronics are hiding behind the black plate (fuel enrichment electronics) in the back seat area of the car. The water/meth injection line is the red polyvinyl line (looks like one of the plug wires) entering the boost plenum assembly adjacent to one of the engine’s boost sensors (roughly in center behind middle of fan assembly).
Chris




Old 04-16-2008, 08:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
Holy **** Chis! I'll need a while to get back up on feet after seeing those pics.

I ordered the unit.

I think I understand how it works.

I've heard that the MSD will not allow ignition to help push oil into the turbo after cut off. Should us MSD users give a little throttle before cutting the ignition?

Thanks,
Doug
__________________
88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 04-16-2008, 08:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
Chris,

Mity vac is the a pressure and vac gun that pumps pressure into a system or sucks it out. It is connected by a small vac line.

With the MSD, what kind of plugs are you running at what gap?

Currently I've got the NGK 7's at .024. The guy who rebuilt my distributor suggested a .040 gap when using the MSD but I think it might be best to ask those who use the MSD on a turbo porsche.

Doug
__________________
88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 04-17-2008, 06:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Acceleration Junkie
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Laguna Beach, CA
Posts: 263
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiegel360 View Post
I've heard that the MSD will not allow ignition to help push oil into the turbo after cut off. Should us MSD users give a little throttle before cutting the ignition?

Thanks,
Doug
Doug:
Unless your year 930 has some trick electrical oil pump that continues to feed the turbo after the engine is turned off, cutting electrical power to anything in the vehicle will not affect pressure of flow.
Old 04-17-2008, 06:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
AFAIK the 930 does not have any mechanical boost retard. It only has vacuum advance.
So, when on boost there will be no vacuum so the ignition is retarded. This is why the 930 is very docile while waiting for boost to build.
Try putting pressure on your capsules/pods while you have a timing light rigged up and let us know if you do get any retard Doug.
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 04-27-2008, 01:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUK View Post
AFAIK the 930 does not have any mechanical boost retard. It only has vacuum advance.
So, when on boost there will be no vacuum so the ignition is retarded. This is why the 930 is very docile while waiting for boost to build.
Try putting pressure on your capsules/pods while you have a timing light rigged up and let us know if you do get any retard Doug.

The late 80's 930 has 2 pots on the dizzy. Both pots create vac advance but only one retards when applying pressure. My experiments show 11 degrees.
Pressure on the other pot shows no change in timing.

Seems strange that on boost a 79 will be at 27 degrees while an 88 will be at 16. If this is accurate, it would be interesting to do torque comparisons. The MSD 6462 with boost retard could possibly be helpful for the early cars. Or, vice versa, perhaps I'll end up taking off the boost line to my dizzy.

__________________
88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 04-28-2008, 05:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:10 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.