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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
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'89 930 clutch help

Hello all, hope all is well...

I just pulled down my friend's 89 turbo for a clutch. the flywheel and pressure plate have about 124,000 miles, and are looking pretty tired. I think the flywheel may have been surfaced once, and looks tired again. Also, the disc wasn't shot and the pressure plate barely kicked back at all once loosened. the springs in the disc haven't hit the flywheel bolts yet though. Does anyone know the measurements for checking a 89 flywheel? A new flywheel is not real common (thank you one year only car) and about $800 .


Here is the next thing. It also has Electromotive twin plug w/ the popular crank pulley conversion from clewett. I tricked this car up about 8 years ago and since, I think he's been through almost as many crank sensors. I'm sure some of it is the way it gets treated, I have several other guys that get 2 to 4 years on theirs, but anyhow, he evidently doesn't always cool his turbo down enough.

I would like to use a flywheel with the 60-2 tooth pattern and move the sensor to the flywheel. I tried this on a 3.5NA w/ tec 3r and a 915. I used a Patrick Motorsports Flywheel for a 3.6 w/ 915 and a 91 turbo factory sensor and bracket I had lying around. I just changed the teeth tdc config from 11 to 15 in the tec3 software and all was well.

I can't do that with these old HPV units on his car so it looks like I may check into a custom flywheel!!??

I guess I should start by calling Patrick Motorsports but I was wondering if anyone had any ideas. I don't have to mount the sensor on the flywheel I just thought it may be a good oppurtunity to try something cool like the 3.5 if its going to be expensive either way...

Thanks for any advice
Old 04-28-2008, 08:07 PM
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Macht Schnell
 
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsrmike View Post
Hello all, hope all is well...

I just pulled down my friend's 89 turbo for a clutch. the flywheel and pressure plate have about 124,000 miles, and are looking pretty tired. I think the flywheel may have been surfaced once, and looks tired again. Also, the disc wasn't shot and the pressure plate barely kicked back at all once loosened. the springs in the disc haven't hit the flywheel bolts yet though. Does anyone know the measurements for checking a 89 flywheel? A new flywheel is not real common (thank you one year only car) and about $800 .

Hi,
Can't help with the Flywheel question, other than if it is heat cracked, I would can it .

There was a run of ***** electromotive crank sensors apparently. I was going to make a guess as to which were the bad ones but can't really remember the details. I would call Clewett and ask about it. I "think" some of these sensors were basically not sealed against the environment. Mine has not ever failed, and the last time I asked Richard about it, he made it sound like I would not have an issue with mine.

Your "Flywheel" trigger sounds intriguing though. I had never heard of that.


Here is the next thing. It also has Electromotive twin plug w/ the popular crank pulley conversion from clewett. I tricked this car up about 8 years ago and since, I think he's been through almost as many crank sensors. I'm sure some of it is the way it gets treated, I have several other guys that get 2 to 4 years on theirs, but anyhow, he evidently doesn't always cool his turbo down enough.

I would like to use a flywheel with the 60-2 tooth pattern and move the sensor to the flywheel. I tried this on a 3.5NA w/ tec 3r and a 915. I used a Patrick Motorsports Flywheel for a 3.6 w/ 915 and a 91 turbo factory sensor and bracket I had lying around. I just changed the teeth tdc config from 11 to 15 in the tec3 software and all was well.

I can't do that with these old HPV units on his car so it looks like I may check into a custom flywheel!!??

I guess I should start by calling Patrick Motorsports but I was wondering if anyone had any ideas. I don't have to mount the sensor on the flywheel I just thought it may be a good oppurtunity to try something cool like the 3.5 if its going to be expensive either way...

Thanks for any advice
Hi,
Can't help with the Flywheel question, other than if it is heat cracked, I would can it .

There was a run of ***** electromotive crank sensors apparently. I was going to make a guess as to which were the bad ones but can't really remember the details. I would call Clewett and ask about it. I "think" some of these sensors were basically not sealed against the environment. Mine has not ever failed, and the last time I asked Richard about it, he made it sound like I would not have an issue with mine.

Your "Flywheel" trigger sounds intriguing though. I had never heard of that.

Les
__________________
---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 04-28-2008, 08:30 PM
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Thanks Les,

I'm thinking the best thing is to order a new flywheel. I wish I had more time but this is a daily driver for this guy and he needs his car.

There aren't any heat cracks in the flywheel just a lot of hot spots and a very rough surface. I could almost swear I had the flywhel machined and replaced the disc when we built the motor years ago.

I have battled with a really stiff clutch pedal on this car for years. It has sheared more than one roll pin and at one point the clutch shaft in the pedal assembly nearly broke in half!!! It cracked on one side of the hole for one of the roll pins and bent!!

Everything seems fine in the linkage/hydraulic dept. Pedal helper spring is good/adjusted(those are weird). It has the later release arm w/ external bearings(they are fine) The guide sleeve and release bearing are good. Even the poly liner in the release bearing looks new. I think I replaced it too years ago. It's had a slave cylinder at some point as well.

The one thing that sticks out to me is that the pressure plate looks concave when bolted up w/disc to flywheel. Which typically means a worn out disc or a flywheel that wasn't machined properly. I know Porsche says not to machine the g-50 flywheels for fear of interference w/ the flywheel bolts. I guess that's why they don't give a measurement in the little spec book. I sure would love to know what it's supposed to be. Does ANYONE KNOW?? Does anyone have an unmachined 89 turbo flywheel laying around that you could measure?

Like I said before, the disc was not that worn out but the the pressure plate barely had any pressure when unbolting from the flywheel. It wasn't slipping though which is even weirder considering this beast is far from stock. I can't help but convince myself his stiff clutch is from the flywheel step being wrong and possibly a "work hardened" pressure plate though I tend to lean towards the "step" issue.

I guess we may have to bite the bullet and spend $1,600 on a flywheel, disc, and pressure plate! OUCH

On a lighter note, you can bet I'll measure that virgin flywheel and post for future reference.

The flywheel crank trigger is cool. You can't see it, it's where Porsche put it, and it uses a very robust Porsche sensor readily available should it ever die.

I've heard that about the sensors before, I've even used the later 3/8"? sensor on a few cars. One guy has changed his later style 3 times in 4 years on his 3.6t. I think it's just a bad spot to put it on a turbo, personally. I'm not criticizing Clewett though. He makes damn nice stuff and is very sharp! If he used custom flywheels instead of crank pulleys that setup would be far less practical. Not to mention all the different flywheels he would need. Our problems have most likely stemmed from Alabama weather combined w/ guys that probably don't cool their turbo's as much as they should upon shutdown. I guess I should mention I know a couple of guys that haven't had sensor trouble on their turbos. They are both very particular about how they treat their cars as well... hmmm (they still keep a spare sensor, an allen wrench, and some feeler gauges in their glovebox though)
Old 04-30-2008, 04:44 PM
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Macht Schnell
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsrmike View Post
Thanks Les,

I guess I should mention I know a couple of guys that haven't had sensor trouble on their turbos. They are both very particular about how they treat their cars as well... hmmm (they still keep a spare sensor, an allen wrench, and some feeler gauges in their glovebox though)
Maybe the Flywheel ws cut before and that's why you are having this strange flywheel, roll pin destroying clutch pedal?

Hmmm, spare sensor in the glove compartment... That's got me thinkin'
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 04-30-2008, 09:29 PM
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The electromotive crank sensor is JUNK. I went through 3 before I smartened up and switched to a Ford sensor. See if you can run a different sensor with the electromotive.
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911 SC turbo, 3.0L 930 motor, G50, 930 brakes, DTA EFI, 352 RWHP DynoDynamic dyno,
Old 05-01-2008, 05:24 AM
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I'm thinking the flywheel has been cut before. And possibly again per my previous boss. I think there is still room to work and I have a great clutch and flywheel shop down the street that can cut it to whatever I tell him to cut it to. I just don't know what the "step" should be. And really don't want to take it back apart if it doesn't work. So that is the $800 question.

I would definately keep a sensor in the glovebox. They are a PITA on the side of the road but can be done. They usually run fine and then just won't crank one day as if killed from heat soak. I usually pull the whole bracket off the dist. stud to change the sensor and use either feeler gauges or modeling clay to set the gap. After I eyeball it along side the old sensor to get it pretty close.
Old 05-01-2008, 06:59 AM
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Check out www.goingsuperfast.com or www.stromskiracing.com

I remember reading that there is an upgrade or change to a later model clutch and fidinza flywheel. But I cant recall which place.

I have an 89 an have noticed it being a one off year. I hope it helps and would love to hear what you end up doing
Old 05-01-2008, 04:49 PM
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thanks, I didn't know if the later stuff would fit in a 89. I don't know much about G50 bellhousing dimensions. We're working in his garage so he can help and clean everything up. I'll have to go measure the transmission. I've got a RS flywheel, a dual mass, and a 964 and a 993 trans along w/ his clutch and flywheel at my house. I still wan't to fix the "step" on his flywheel as I think that's been his problem all along. If I used a later flywheel I could entertain the flywheel sensor idea. I'd have to weld up the 2 missing teeth and cut way 2 more in the right spot but I think I can handle that. Thanks again, I'll let you know what we figure out.
Old 05-02-2008, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsrmike View Post

I would definately keep a sensor in the glovebox. They are a PITA on the side of the road but can be done. They usually run fine and then just won't crank one day as if killed from heat soak. I usually pull the whole bracket off the dist. stud to change the sensor and use either feeler gauges or modeling clay to set the gap. After I eyeball it along side the old sensor to get it pretty close.
If I were you I would fix your POS crank sensor problem once and for all. The POS crank sensor can quit any time and what if it is in front of a loaded fuel tanker. I know, worst case. Mine failed any time it wanted until I got rid of the POS electromotive sensor.
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911 SC turbo, 3.0L 930 motor, G50, 930 brakes, DTA EFI, 352 RWHP DynoDynamic dyno,
Old 05-03-2008, 06:11 AM
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