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Need Help. Will C2 Turbo OEM Bumper bolt up to 930 front end??

I am in the process of purchasing a stock C2 (1991) Turbo front bumper with all mounting hardware and installing it on my 87-930.

The question that I have is... How different (if at all) is the mounting of the bumper to the shocks and front cross-member on the C2 compared with the 930?

I'm thinking that the shocks on the C2 Turbo mount up completely different than on my car.

Can someone help with this. I am looking for only facts and not "why don't you buy a fiberglass bumper, etc...".

Your help is appreciated.

Bryan
Old 05-13-2008, 09:13 PM
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Bryan,

They do mount differently. The 964 piece mounts to an aluminum bar that then mounts to the tub.. can't remember if it's on shocks or what.

If you can wait a couple of days I'll try to get aa couple of pics.. a buddy of mine has a currently "still born" 964/5 race car project and the front bumper is off, sitting right in front of the car but the aluminum bar is in place.

Paul
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:56 AM
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First of all you said

Can someone help with this. I am looking for only facts and not "why don't you buy a fiberglass bumper, etc...".

Hmmm, the c2 turbo had steel bumpers?????? Really??

OK onto the 411. I have just installed one onto my 930 aswell, (fibreglass) its off a c2 turbo aswell. Im not to sure what u mean by the shocks, im guessing the post brackets that bolt to the bumper for mounting to car yes? Unless u have a mounting kit for the new bumper then you will have a few issues cos the 930 posts dont fit the c2 turbo bumoer cos of the spacing for the mounts being different. I just had to make up some custom mounts and i bolted them to car where the 930 mounts bolt onto, then I mounted the bumper on to these by bolting it behind where the parklights would normally fit cos I dont want the parklights on mine, i like the look better without. Anyway apart from those front mounts u then have to make more mounts for the sides as the 930 ones which are welded to the car wont work cos the new bumper is wider. So yeh, theres alot of engineering involved with making support brackets but apart from that it fitted pretty well and I had no mounting kit whatsoever, I havent seen a mounting kit for one but im sure it makes the job alot easier cos there is hours and hours of work involved in making mounts. STill not sure 100% sure on what u mean by shocks, but if u are refferring to shock absorbers, why would that be a problem? The bumper doesnt mount anywhere near them and as for the front crossmember, its miles away from that so u wont have any clearance problems. Yeh sure it will sit a bit lower in the front but not much and yeh sure jacking up the front is near impossible and even worse of u have the turbo side skirts fitted aswell, yup like me, lol, but theres ways around that problem, al in all it looks much more modern and makes the car look alot more vicious but what a great look Anyway my project is still going on and on so not finished yet, just the front bumper and rear wing and roof spoiler and new wheels to go, time to watch my bank account drop I guess, haha. Hope this helpd
Old 05-14-2008, 02:18 AM
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What???
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Old 05-14-2008, 03:11 AM
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onboost? What is What???? exactly suppose to mean?? Or is that just suppose to be funny?
Old 05-14-2008, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezme View Post
onboost? What is What???? exactly suppose to mean?? Or is that just suppose to be funny?
Take it however you will.. it's just that your comments were quite hard to follow and a lot of it didn't make much sense.

You're first comment is...
"Hmmm, the c2 turbo had steel bumpers?????? Really??"

So what does that mean because knowhere in Bryan's question, or my comment does anyone mention a C2 bumper being steel.

Bryan clearly stated that he was interested in installing a FACTORY "stock C2
(1991) Turbo front bumper with all mounting hardware and installing it on my 87-930." and was thus not interested in fiberglass.

Then you go on to give an in depth description of ... what?

That's all brother..
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Last edited by onboost; 05-14-2008 at 08:47 AM..
Old 05-14-2008, 05:38 AM
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onboost View Post
You're first comment is...
"Hmmm, the c2 turbo had steel bumpers?????? Really??"

So what does that mean because nowhere in Bryan's question, or my comment does anyone mention a C2 bumper being steel.
My first thought too!

Also, the OP is refering to the 5mph impact bumper shocks/mounts, not the shock absorbers/struts. That should be pretty obvious I would think.
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:53 AM
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Also stock bumpers are not fiberglass... they are plastic. So Tezme if you just installed fiberglass bumpers they are not from a C2 turbo but are replica units.
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Old 05-14-2008, 06:11 AM
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Thanks

Guys,

Thanks for all the help. hopefully, we can get to the bottom of this. I will have the C2 mounting hardware including the aluminum cross member and shocks if I want.

I was wondering about where the shocks mount onto the frame of the car (C2), will it be different from my 87-930? This is mostly what I'm struggling with to figure out.

I realize that the major dimensions will be the same, but I want to retain the impact-ability when I add this bumper. And, fiberglass is out of the question at least for now.

Any ideas, pics, etc.? Thanks again for the help.

Bryan
Old 05-14-2008, 07:14 AM
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Hey Bryan, I've seen that done once. Well, actually it was a factory aluminum support installed behind a fiberglass cover on a euro '80 930. The bumper shocks on the 930 are mounted higher and slightly further apart than the c-2, best I can remember. I can still picture the mounts. On the euro in question there were no "shocks", just tubes that were cut and chopped and welded back together in the right position. The factory c-2 bumper has tons of mounting screws on the bottom, holding the plastic lower panels in place. There is really no where to hook them on yours. The biggests problem was getting enough airflow to the oil cooler in the fender. It was a racecar that eventually had a cooler mounted in front, behind the c-2 bumper, this also required cutting a portion of the nose out to let the air out of the cooler. Maybe not the best approach but that's how my previous employer did it.

Maybe the guy that owns the car will chime in on here...
Old 05-14-2008, 09:03 AM
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If you use the factory plastic bumper, you may consider an aftermarket splitter that takes the place of the two lower plastic pieces, to simplify the mounting of that stuff as well. You'll also have to get creative in mounting the cover to the lower portion of the fenders...

Tezme, perhaps your car is a euro/ROW non-US car? You probably had tubular mounts as well. I think all us 911's after 73 had some sort of hydraulic "shock" in the mounting of the bumpers
Old 05-14-2008, 09:13 AM
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Chiming in. But I can't find an icon with a bell!

It's my car rsrmike is referring to and he knows it well.

The shock mounting points on the front are completely different between the SC and the C2. Although the exterior body looks the same, the chassis tub is different. The SC shocks mount on the sides of the tub using a strap and a bolt at the rear through a bracket. The C2 shocks mount directly to the front on of the tub using four bolts as i recall and are shorter.

What you have to do to use the factory C2 aluminum bumper is to fabricate a mount that uses the SC style mounting and adapts to the C2 bumper. I believe the C2 bumper mounts are a bit higher than the SC and closer together than the SC bumper by a small amount. What we did was to start with a set of Euro tubes that came off the car, cut and weld until they fit which was not easy. A lot of trial and error was involved, mostly error. The big problem is the C2 bumper fits into the bumper cover tightly and once it is together and fitted to the car there is little room to make measurements or trial fit pieces. I would strongly advise doing this work before the bumper cover is sent to the paint shop. I believe the hole spacing on the C2 bumper is the same as the SC so we used the ends of the original Euro tubes. It's been several years since I've had the cover off so my recall is off.

If I had to do it over again I would use the version we settled on as a prototype and fabricate a new part using tubing with a rear bolt added and metal stock. The Euro tubing material is thin and iI have never trusted the piece for strength like using the C2 tow hook. In my case that is not a problems as this is a track only car. Be prepared to spend both quality and non-quality time in this process.

As for mounting the C2 bumper cover to the fenders, the holes line up with the SC holes, I used the factory clips and screws. That is ok if you are using the factory bumper cover. The clip/screws will not support the weight of a fiberglass piece and will pull loose with motion and vibration. Use bolts with lock nuts instead.

I've posted this before in another thread but a warning. The aftermarket C2 turbo bumper covers (fiberglass) will not allow the use of the factory inner bumper. These parts have not been pulled from an original C2 turbo bumper and the angle of the slope at the top is not the same. I know as I went through three from three different so called manufactures and then sent templates to a couple others. When we built this car in 1997 The Racers Group was selling a front bumper that had been pulled from a real C2 turbo and all fit well. After many years a couple off course excusrions I went to replace the bumper which TRG no longer sells and ran into this problem. The variation is subtle but deadly. A factory bumper cover fits perfectly which confirmed what I had determined by measuring and conversations with one honest aftermarket supplier. In addition, all three of the covers had the dreaded left side twist but I was assured by all manufactures that their molds were unique!

As for the rear, I'm not sure as the original TRG piece is still there. I do recall the bumper shock mounting was at the same location and may have shortend the Euro tubes slightly to make it fit.

Sorry but I don't have an close up photos of the mounts.

Hope this helps.

Jim
Old 05-14-2008, 01:39 PM
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Q. Can someone help with this. I am looking for only facts and not "why don't you buy a fiberglass bumper, etc...".

Ok I guess its just how I read it. Bryan said the above so I thought , hmmm, thats weird, he doesnt want Fibreglass and the factory bumper isnt steel so what does he mean, it could only be carbon fibre, so as you can see now I was confused so it does make sense what I said, I guess its just the way I was thinking of it.
Ah I see its a plastic bumper, Sorry Bryan, I usually refer to plastic and fibreglass as the same thing and then theres the steel or aluminium in its own catergory.

------------------------------------------
George Bush hates fiberglass bumpers...

I bet they hate him to
------------------------------------------
Yup mine are replicas, there not the factory plastic ones
-------------------------------------------

Hey rsrmike. really u guys have shocks in your bumpers?? Thats cool, I have owned a few 911s's but none of them had shocks they were all just the tubular posts yeh. Yeh my 930 is 1985 japanese import, I thought Bryan might be talking about something like those things but cos I hadnt any on my 911's I went away from that idea Years ago I used to have a Fiat X1/9, that had those shock bumpers u talk about to, and one day I was sitting at the lights and a lady ran right up my ass so hard she pushed my car into the car sitting in front of me, it wrote off both cars and my car only had little scratches on the front and rear bumpers (u gotta love them shocks), u guys are lucky
--------------------------------------------
Anyway onboost and equality72521, as rsrmike has just said:

Tezme, perhaps your car is a euro/ROW non-US car? You probably had tubular mounts as well. I think all us 911's after 73 had some sort of hydraulic "shock" in the mounting of the bumpers

Hes right, my car isnt US, I dont have shock bumpers , maybe it makes a litle more sense now as to what I was trying to say, just from a different part of the world then you guys and our cars are slightly different in areas, but u werent to know i am not from US. Im not taking your comment anyway actually onboost, its just I was trying to help Bryan and then when someone comes along and says What???, thats kinda rude, but who cares, you can be rude if u like, I just wanted to know why u said that, I didnt know what it was u didnt understand about my post?? But I know now that it was pretty much everything I said, so sorry Bryan, It looks like I wasnt much help, hope I didnt confuse you to much, Im also sorry cos I mis-read the part about u had the mounting kit aswell so its probably best I stay out of it cos I havent ever used one of them before and by the sounds of what all the others are saying, its quite a bit different then my car and how it all mounts, Good Luck with project anyway, maybe u can post some pics when your done, it would be interesting to see what it looks like for me cos I have just done it to mine aswell so nice to compare these things u know, cheers
Old 05-14-2008, 04:13 PM
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I looked at a couple of pictures of the car under construction with the aluminum bumper on minus the bumper cover and remembered how the mounting bracket connects to the bumper. The C2 uses a long (10 or 12 mm diameter) bolt that installs from the top of the bumper and screws into threads at the bottom. The C2 bumper shock has a tube welded on that fits in the bumper which the bolt runs through.

What we did was to take a couple pieces of 1/2 inch pipe and cut them a bit smaller than the inside measurement of the bumper. Those were welded onto the fabricated bracket vertically and fit inside the bumper like the original. I had to cut a bit more off the pipe and use spacers to achieve the correct height and alignment. It lets you know how much work goes into a producton car during design and development so that all the pieces will fit properly.

We were not concerned with weight as this car was for PCA prepared stock and needed to meet the prescribed weight and front to back ratios. Rather than steel aluminum could be used if saving weight is a big deal but if that is the case a light weight bent tube could be fabricated to serve as a bit of protection. The C2 bumper is substantial in size and the area it covers.

As for the bumper cover it is not fiberglass but is made of a poly material that I can't remember the name of. It is much lighter than any fiberglass plus it is flexible which increases the longivity. It dies require a flex agent in the paint but any body shop is aware of that as almost all bumper covers are made similiar.

The rear uses a similiar tube to connect the strut to the bumper.

Jim
Old 05-14-2008, 05:03 PM
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Thanks,

Jim and the others,

Thanks for all the help with this. I was looking for more of a turn key option. For $600 plus approx. $150 on shipping, this thing would have been a nightmare to figure out.

I most likely will go with a aftermarket option, but will not purchase fiberglass as I do not want to deal with cracking if I hit a curb or a small animal...

Jim, if you think of anything else let me know. Any ideas for Carbon Fiber or plastic (flexible) type options?

DonE has installed a C2 bumper on his 78-79 930 and I was hoping he would chime in to let us know what he used and what was needed for the mods. His car looks great.

Anyways, thanks again,

Bryan
Old 05-14-2008, 08:18 PM
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Bryan,

As best I know there is no turn key option to use the C2 aluminum bumper with a C2 bumper cover. The closest thing I remember is that there are a couple of companies that offer a protective bumper as part of their fiberglass kits but do not know if they will sell it separately. I did it because I was told that it was easy to do and we needed the weight and protection on the car. It's not a 10 on the difficulty but a long running 3 or 4. You either have to know how to fabricate or have access to someone who can.

As for the bumper cover itself, you can't do better than the factory polyurethane part. It is flexible, fits the car with no problems and the prices have dropped to be competitive with glass. The rear is a bit different as it is three pieces with the center piece shared between the narrow and wide cars.

Remember carbon fiber is in all aspects sexy fiberglass and cracks easily. I'm not aware of any aftermarket poly pieces.

If you don't decide to use the original aluminum inner bumper the process is easy especially if using a factor bumper cover.

Good luck. The C2 bumpers add a lot to the looks of the car. The original 930 bumpers are far to busy (too many pieces) and awkward looking.

Jim
Old 05-15-2008, 06:26 AM
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"sexy fiberglass"... LOL Sorry to bring up bad memories Jim...
Old 05-15-2008, 08:39 AM
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Thanks

Jim,

If the fabrication is a 3-4 (out of 10... not 5) then I may be interested. The other thing is how do I secure the flimsy material along the lower edge where on the normal C2 there are all of the bolts/screws along the bottom???, and on a fiberglass unit they are stiff enough to not need those added fixation points.

Any ideas?

Thx,
Bryan
Old 05-15-2008, 02:57 PM
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RSR Mike

Mike,

Forgot to say thanks. I appreciate your input above as well.

Bryan
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