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Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
Leask WUR question

When I decided to run a 1 bar spring in the WG, Leask suggested I use a IA modified fuel head and his rpm solenoid valve. Since I installed all of the above, I've been using my PLX -AFR/Boost/Vac gages to tune. Leask's adjustable WUR is easy to work with but I seem to be having some trouble with the enrichment.

Brian Leask said that when running a 1 bar spring, enrichment pressure will probably sit at 2.1 - 2.2 bar in order to create an 11.8- 12 AFR. On WOT, I am getting a 10.5 AFR whether I am set at 2.1 bar or 3.5 bar. I've leaned the enrichment pressure enough to assume there is a problem that is causing a rich condition on boost.

My O2 sensor is unplugged as always.
The PLX does not need to be recalibrated

If timing is too far advanced, can this cause rich conditions (besides the detonation grenade)?

I'd like to know what you guys with adjustable WUR's are running for enrichment pressure?

Any suggestions????

Help.

Thanks,
Doug
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88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 05-16-2008, 08:57 AM
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"I wuz the liquor..."
 
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Just curious, at what RPM do you have your solenoid set for? I think mine is set at 4,400. I could probably delay it further, but I pefer to be safe.

I don't recall what my enrichment pressure is...my Mighty-Vac that I used to check it, is now broken. I do remember that I had to knock the large disc on the bottom of the WUR, in.

Last edited by sand_man; 05-16-2008 at 10:03 AM..
Old 05-16-2008, 10:01 AM
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"I wuz the liquor..."
 
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Until I got the Leaske WUR, I had a helluva time controlling the IA head! In hind sight, with the .80 bar that I run in my Tial, I would have been fine with the stock head. Of course I did add an HFS turbo, so who knows?
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
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Old 05-16-2008, 10:18 AM
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Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sand_man View Post
Just curious, at what RPM do you have your solenoid set for? I think mine is set at 4,400. I could probably delay it further, but I pefer to be safe.

I don't recall what my enrichment pressure is...my Mighty-Vac that I used to check it, is now broken. I do remember that I had to knock the large disc on the bottom of the WUR, in.
Set for 4800, which has been safe considering how rich it is running.
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88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 05-16-2008, 11:05 AM
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Metal Guru
 
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Doug, what mods do you have to your engine besides the SC cams that would necessitate a IA modded fuel head? Just curious as Brian has my WUR at this moment. I plan on running .9 bar on a stock motor but the general consensus is I won't be needing fuel head work or a RPM solenoid.
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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 05-17-2008, 05:25 AM
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Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911nut View Post
Doug, what mods do you have to your engine besides the SC cams that would necessitate a IA modded fuel head? Just curious as Brian has my WUR at this moment. I plan on running .9 bar on a stock motor but the general consensus is I won't be needing fuel head work or a RPM solenoid.
The 1 bar WG spring was the only reason. I probably should have tested the AFR with the old fuel head and 1 bar spring before going ahead with both mods at the same time.
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88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 05-17-2008, 05:32 AM
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Just heard from Brian yesterday. He set my WUR up for 3.6 volume fuel delivery since I'll be using a 1 bar spring.
Soon it will be dyno time.
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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 05-18-2008, 04:59 AM
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one of the great unwashed
 
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Doug:
I thought I had my BL WUR set up, but I got the car pig rich again up at Watins Glen this week. I also have an IA fuel head, and in hindsight, I probably didn't need it with the Leask WUR. Please consider that I am only a 3.0 L SC with a turbo kit, so I am a bit different with fuel delivery than a 930. I have stock SC CIS, with the IA head and a stainless steel airbox.

I also found that I needed to raise the control pressures across the board to compensate for the IA fuel head...that thing just dumps fuel like crazy. I just yesterday reset warm control pressure to 3.8 bar, and enrichment pressure to 3.5 bar, which was an increase of about 0.3 bar over the last week setup. I should also run the 4800 RPM module instead of the 4200 RPM module I had on the solenoid switch this week...I was way too rich (like 10.0:1!!) coming out of some of the turns at the Glen. I may try to find a higher RPM module, maybe 5200 or so.

I'm going to finish tweaking stuff today, and see how the car responds. I have an onboard AEM A/F gauge, so I'm always tweaking to that.
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Old 05-18-2008, 09:32 AM
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Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
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Pat,
Thanks for the info. Actually, Craig930 runs a 5200 module. I found that to be interesting because this means that the approx 3.75 bar warm pressure is fine for boost up to 5200 rpm. My thinking is...how much more fuel is needed from 5200-6500 rpm's. Leask was suggesting 2.2 bar for enrichment, but I don't see how that is possible if one has 12 afr at 5200 at 3.75 bar warm pressure.

I'm guessing that I didn't need the new fuel head either. Stephen at IA offered to change the pressures on the head for me. We'll see.

Keep us posted on whether or not you are able to get it tuned with the new fuel head.

Thanks,
Doug

Guys, I'd love some more input.......
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88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 05-18-2008, 01:21 PM
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one of the great unwashed
 
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Doug:
I just got finished tweaking. I took the boost enrichment out of play...I plugged the line to the WUR. I raised my warm control pressure quite a bit, and got it to a managable AFR (high 11 low 12) on boost, but at WOT it gors to 10 AFR. I did this without the gauges on it, just keep tweaking and road testing. I'll put the gauges back on later this week, but my guess is that my warm control pressure is way over 4 bar.

I've concluded the IA mod on my SC fuel head just delivers too much fuel at the upper mid-range. I may try to turn the pressure down a bit and see how that goes. My SC runs only 73 PSI pressure, a different setup than the 930, but I was definitely not starving it for fuel at the track, even at 7000 RPM (nah, no rev limiter)

I figure another way to compensate is turn the boost up to 6.5 PSI, I usually run 5 PSI. I evidently have the fuel to support more boost. I do not have a HP monster, I'm only in about the 250-270 RWHP range (it dyno'ed at 251 before all of the tweaking, beta version).

Pat
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Patrick E. Keefe
78 SC
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Old 05-18-2008, 04:06 PM
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If you have the fuel then all you need to do is worry about detonation when raising the boost pressures. Assuming you are running stock C/R in the 911SC of 8.5 to 1 this may be getting close to borderline....I am not sure but food for thought.
You could retard ignition advance slightly and run more boost to be safe and see how that feels in terms of power delivery, and how it effects A/F ratio.
Are you data logging or how do you know what your A/F was during a track session?

Just off topic but what were your lap times at the Glen, I love that track!
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Old 05-20-2008, 01:22 PM
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fredmeister:
I have no air to air intercooler, but I do have a neat little water injection, which is as effective as an air to air. My temps inside the airbox after the compressor run around 120F. I just have to bring a lot of distilled water to the track. I have not noticed any detonation at 6 PSI, and I think I'm at around 28 degrees total advance. It would be nice to have a boost retard on the distributor. The water has anti-detonation properties, and when it gets real hot, I can add alcohol to the water. Even at 8.5:1, my dynamic CR doesn't approach what you 930 guys have at higher boost levels with the lower static CR.

I don't have a 21st century data logger, I use my onboard AEM AFR gauge. The only gauges I can see at track speeds are that, my tach and the oil temp. I get really rich when the revs drop, say out of turn 7 and 8 (the toe and the heel), when I have to get back on the throttle hard, I drop to 10 AFR, which just kills the power.

No lap timer, but I was hanging with one of the track buds in his 951, and he told me he was running around 2:27. I love that track too, always have, since I was a kid watching the F1 races.

BTW, with Doug's original question, I checked my injectors Sunday, and didn't like the way they were squirting; a few had a nice conical mist, and some were squirting like a young boy. I have new ones coming, and will send the current ones back to Witchhunter for cleaning and testing. Maybe this will make a difference, could have been loaded up in two cylinders and made the AFR out of whack. I will follow up on the new injector results.

Do the 930's stage the fuel pumps, or are they both on all the time?

Pat
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Patrick E. Keefe
78 SC
01 Boxster
Old 05-20-2008, 03:32 PM
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Doug:
Back to your problem, similar to mine...after thinking maybe I need to run a bit lower fuel pressure until I get into a range where I can actually use the fuel, I found a device which will allow the fuel pump to run slower at lower RPM. It seems fully adjustable and almost linear. I left the link to it at work, else I'd post it here. It was from Jegs or Summit, I believe. I may need to get in touch with BL and see if he has an opinion on this, as I think it may result in crazy control pressures at the WUR.
Pat


So, maybe I can thus drop fuel pressure to perhaps the 50 PSI range, and raise it progressively as revs increase. Just a thought, but I am seriously considering trying it
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Patrick E. Keefe
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Old 05-21-2008, 04:51 PM
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Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Pat,
Sounds interesting. Let us know how it goes. Also, I'd be curious to hear what Brian says.
Thanks,
Doug
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88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 05-22-2008, 05:04 AM
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one of the great unwashed
 
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Doug:
here's the thing I found:

http://www.jegs.com/p/Aeromotive/750285/10002/-1

Pat
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Patrick E. Keefe
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:10 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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That gadget could replace the WUR, ha!
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:22 AM
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Doug Siegel
 
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Regulating fuel pressure by voltage sounds scary.
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88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 05-22-2008, 09:28 AM
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Brian, that was my thinking when I saw this, it really could replace the WUR, with the exception of the boost enrichment. I would think I can ony dial speed down to about 80% or so, then I start getting problems such as cooling of the motor, too low delivery pressure, etc.

Doug, it's not that scary, it's just slowing down the motor at low revs. I have literally hundreds of VFD's where I work, and they are one of the great inventions of the 20th century. Tremendous energy savings and precision air and fluid flow control.
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Patrick E. Keefe
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:36 AM
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Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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As a novice, I assumed that our fuel pumps are either on or off, that voltage and rate have no relationship here.

How would this work on deceleration?

Pat, if you set up this system, I might have to drive down to NJ and see it with my own eyes.
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88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 05-22-2008, 06:16 PM
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