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A fellow Pelacanite
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930cabrioboy View Post
the plug on the rear of the air blunger/ beggining of the hard lines....is that the cold dstart switch?
Not sure which part you are referring to. Please try again. Maybe post a picture.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

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Old 05-29-2008, 09:51 AM
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ok....here goes ..remember I am not a photographer...lol, it is right on the backside of the air filter.
Old 05-29-2008, 05:09 PM
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for those that asked for some barnfind pic's...here you are
sorry for the bad pics...because it doesn't run yet I cant take her out to get some nice shots

Old 05-29-2008, 05:13 PM
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oh forgot to ask can i get an accurate reading of fuel psi at this point?

Old 05-29-2008, 05:15 PM
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There is a switch/plug at the rear of the air plate - that is the safety cut out - no air flowing - no fuel (pumps). When you depress the plate you should hear it click.
The injectors should open at about 50 psi. Your system pressure should be about 90 psi (surplus is returned to tank).
The big banjo facing you on the fuel head is fuel in. You could disconnect and measure flow - about 1100 cc/30 sec.
Depends what union fitting you get with pressure tester , but if poss, you could plug into an injector banjo outlet. This is not the usual way - I just can't remember where I hooked into my fuel head to measure pressure. You can also unhook all injectors - or at least the easier 3 on RHS, and couple up again to lines and see if any work. Careful - if some are the LHS cylinders could be flooding too.
If the piston is stuck , it is relatively easy to get at - disconnect all fuel lines at injector head. Three screws in top of head -undo, and prise head clear of body. Flip it over - the tip you see is bottom of piston. Prise up lock tab (easy) and unscrew(easy). Piston should fall out basically. If grungy , need to clean. You will also be able to see inside of metering chamber. Careful in there - fine surfaces and very fine (invisble ) metering slots. If grungy, clean. Could try blowing bit of air backwards thru metering slots (injector outlets). Careful - not too much pressure - don't rupture slots - about 2 thou wide.
You have a cold start valve which will probably be gummed/rusted shut - about mid manifold, under the fuel head rear. Can't really get at it without removing manifold. But you need fuel at injectors first.
Alan
Old 05-29-2008, 09:52 PM
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Sorry - just seen your pics - the big banjo is easy to see. You were pointing at the safety cut out switch. The fuel line you are pointing at is the return. Should work.
On the other side of the head from there is a nut/screw. This is the pressure adjust system - spring/shims.
Alan
Old 05-29-2008, 09:55 PM
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Just out of curiosity - is there any gap between your rubber stopper and the top of air plate?
Alan
Old 05-29-2008, 09:57 PM
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thanks for the input Alan, there is no gap at the ait plate. That screw you speak of at the rhs ..could it be gummed up and cause some of mt grief? the one I pointed at was as clean as new when I removed it.
The description of prising open was the plate where all the hard lines come from above the banjo that I pointed at? If so I took it part earlier and cleaned it out...seemed clean and since then I have flow up to the injectors...but not enough to spray through injectors.

I keep pluggn'
Old 05-30-2008, 05:38 PM
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wait till you get your cis gauges. then check all the pressures. mine had not been run in 6 years. I had to replace both fuel pumps. filter accumulator. send out the wur for rebuild it wasnt controlloing pressure correctly . plus the fuel head was gummed up also. I did manage to get the injectors all cleaned up so they work good though. now I have an adjustable wur and the imagine auto fuel head which flows a huge amount of fuel.
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Old 05-30-2008, 08:26 PM
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From memory I plugged my pressure gear between the WUR and the head - that way you can do cold/hot pressures. The pressure should be low(er) cold and increase. This pressure works against the system pressure- so allows the piston to move more freely (more fuel) when cold. The WUR is the box below Rt of the fuel head - next to the AAV.
Looks like you need to get the system pressure numbers first - but you could unscrew the RHS injectors, and hook them up again and see if any are spraying.
I think the plug you removed is redundant on the 930 - this head is used for other cars too. But it should be recording system pressure with any luck if you can plug into it. If the pressure control valve is gummed, most likely I think you would have over pressure (no bypass). It cracks open at max system pressure - regulates your pressure - which is delivered from the pumps.
Are you sure BOTH pumps are working - and not just the rear one? Depress airplate -jam it part open and get under front of car - between two front wheels and listen for front pump running.
Alan
Old 05-30-2008, 09:58 PM
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I am most positive both pumps work but I will do that test in the front, I hear whinning near the gas tank area and near the left rear wheel...I will do the checking and get back soon.

the pressure regulator is located where?

Can the wur be gummed up and give me lower numbers in psi? Can that be taken apart and cleaned?

the more it goes on the more I feel the need to do like everone who has had a car sit for a while...pumps accumulator/filter and clean up the head etc.....I just was hoping to avoid the big costs up front as I am still not sure the full condition of the motor yet..although compression is good, if a rebuild is needed then it will become a winter project unfortunately.
Old 05-31-2008, 04:31 AM
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Just to let you know that the CDI box in the engine compartment does whine & it can easily be mistaken for the rear fuel pump working.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 06-01-2008 at 04:27 AM..
Old 06-01-2008, 02:57 AM
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can I jump the pumps at the fuse box to test them?

if not I will physically get under and test them, just to confirm the front one is under the plate between the front wheels, and am I correct that the rear is near the left rear wheel?

I am going to get my guage today hopefully I will have some time to test before the day is over.

cheers
Old 06-01-2008, 08:25 AM
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You can jump at the red relays using numbers 30 and 87 I think it is. You have the location of them correct.
Old 06-01-2008, 11:18 AM
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Hey Cab, what color is that ?
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:33 PM
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thanks will try that...got the pressure guage but lacking a little time, will try once my daughter is asleep

the color is dark blue....
Old 06-01-2008, 02:56 PM
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I had a few minutes to tinker, I ended up taking the fuel head back off, because it was my first problem, I still have a funny feeling that it is blocked a little still, and the plunger still didn't flow like I would like to...will clean it all up completely, because all I did before was blow some air through it to unblock it.

I do have one stripped #25 hex nut of the top three, so I will be cursing in the garage soon enough trying to remove it.

The guage I got did not fit any of the inlet/outlets so I will need to get adapters.

all the injectors are super and breakopen at 70-80psi as they should (tested again) and threw som carb cleaner in it again

both pumps are working fine for those who asked.

the wur is totally clear and although I know not if the electrical side works the flow is fine.
....I must only be off a few psi to get her running

can anyone tell me if there is a fuel pressure regulator that I can tweek or clean? If so where is it and what does it look like.

cheers
Old 06-01-2008, 06:47 PM
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Your fuel pressure regulator is on the RHS of the fuel head - the screw /nut thing I mentioned earlier.
Your WUR will not be the problem even if it is gummed. It just controls the piston head response during the warm up cycle by varying fuel pressure on top of the head. Either way, you should have enough pressure to work.
Something wrong with your injector opening pressures. If that truely is the pressures (70-80 psi), they are way too high. And may explain your lack of fuel at injectors. You need to be able to measure your system pressure - it may not be much more than your injector pressure.
Opening pressure should be around 50 psi. Some injectors have small filters incorporated - don't know if the 930 has or not - but maybe they are blocked if you have such high pressures.
Jack the car up, and when pumps are running, put your hand on each of them and feel the action. May have to drop the front bash plate for front pump - at least partially (easy - apart from frozen bolts/nuts).
The elecricla part of the WUR is fairly simple - but an ohm meter across the two terminals on the WUR socket and make sure there is continuity circuit with some resistance (heater wire).
If so, as long as you get 12 v on the plug when idling it is going (apart from any possible gumming). If you hook your CIS pressure system between the WUR and fuel head (on the ferrule fittings) you will measure the WUR working - pressure will rise as engine warms up - 5- 10 minutes. Write down cold and warm pressures for future reference. While you are in there.
Alan
Old 06-02-2008, 12:52 PM
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thanks Alan, I did want to mention that there is a gap at the air plate between the screw and the rubber stopper, as you asked this before...I had not paid attention to the question.

The injectors crack open at 70-80...all of them, I was told this is normal but you state that 50 is a better number. If they cracked at 50 I would not be having this topic as I am sure my pressure is in the 50-60 range because at the injector with the injector removed I fill 1/8 of a cut waterbottle with the 2-3 second cycle of the key....and it keeps leaking after the key is turned off...pressure dies out.

Does anyone have a set of injectors that are good I could buy-borrow? or can I interchange them just to test with old vw units maybe?
buying new ones is not a problem if it fixes my issues...expensive trouble shooting gives me a sour taste when it doesn't work.
Old 06-02-2008, 05:26 PM
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Check your total fuel flow rate - it is easy - pull the big banjo off in the middle front of the fuel head - there are two big lines - the one on the LHS is the return line.
Put the banjo end into a measuring container and push your flap wide open for a timed 15 - 30 secs. After 30 secs you should have about 1100 cc fuel.
Your system pressure is supposed to be 90 psi (book value) +/- a little bit. If it is slightly down, with injectors opening at 80 psi, you won't get much fuel.
Book value for injectors is 30 - 45 psi. Something wrong with 80 psi.
May not help - but you can try flushing them backwards - in case they have screens and they are clogged/gummed.
You need to make up a non - abrasive little tool to hold the pintel (nozzle pin) open - I cut out a small V in shim plate and rubbed the edges down smooth. Then insert hose over end of injector (incl pintel tool) and push fuel/cleaner backwards. See if any crap comes out other end.
What gap approx is on your air plate/rubber. I'm trying to mount one, but I have about 10 mm gap and can't see how it can be any use at that point.
Alan
Old 06-02-2008, 06:05 PM
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