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A fellow Pelacanite
 
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Stephen Kaspar of IA sells what he calls SC330. These are somewhere between SC & 964 from what I can make of it.
These would appear to be a good option if keeping CIS?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 07-13-2008, 02:28 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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All those profiles were tested on my buddie's car.
JD, CamGrinder, made up a set of SC330 units. All worked well but in the end the SC profile edged out the others for smoothness and low end torque with the ability to support 400WHP. There isn't a lot of difference between them all, and how they are timed influences the character. All do a good job with CIS.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 07-13-2008, 06:53 PM
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Brian, when you say timed, are you talking the cam timing itself or ignition timing? I am wondering if I should advance the .7mm cam timing or just wait and see what I can do with ignition timing.
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Old 07-13-2008, 07:45 PM
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He definitely means cam timing.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 07-14-2008 at 03:00 PM..
Old 07-14-2008, 01:58 PM
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Hi..!
I'm installing a set of webcams "964" profile cams in my non-turbo 911 SC.
I am thinking of installing a twin turbo in the future...

If I understand you guys correctly, I can use those 964 cams with turbo, right?
I'll keep my old SC cams, so I could replace them, but, I'd like to not have to go in there next time...

Can I keep the CIS?

Also, what kind of turbo's should I get for my 3 litre? (Twin turbo)
Old 07-15-2008, 04:56 PM
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It has been stated that the 964 cams will work better in a CIS turbo than they will on a non turbo CIS car. So don't leave the turboing too long!
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 07-16-2008, 10:15 AM
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SC cam ID?

Hey cam experts.
Is there any way to see/verify if one has SC cams installed in the 930 motor w/o tearing it down? Previous owner claimed such and I have the motor out to do upgrades and seals. However, the bump sticks don't reveal much w/ valve covers off.
Measure lift on the rockers?
thanks in advance,

mark
Old 07-19-2008, 08:22 PM
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Did anyone ever consider the effect on valve cooling by changing the cams on these motors? I mean 80% of the heat that is extracted from the valves is done during the contact of the valve head with the valve seat during closed position. When you alter the valve timing to make more overlap and valve duration, you are taking away some of the cooling effect....I just wonder if any experience has shown negative effects on the exhaust valves for the turbo engines when changing to more aggressive cams.
Being a turbo engine, the boost makes up for poor cam timing more so that a normally aspirated car, though the effect on off-boost running may make the cam choice more effective to increase the low end on these cars.
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 07-20-2008, 08:21 AM
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Timing has little or no affect regarding heat. The time it comes in contact with the seat is the same, but it opens a bit earlier or later in the cycle. Duration might have more of an affect.
Old 07-20-2008, 06:04 PM
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In a bit of a tangent, not specifically applied to Turbos:

What is the "lobe center"? Is "lobe center" the time that the valve is at maxiumum lift?

I hear that early 911S, RS, RSR, etc cams with high overlap and lift have "narrow lobe centers".

If a cam has a lot of lift, would this mean that the valve needs to start opening earlier and spends more of its time off the seat? Are high overlap S and RSR cams stressing the valves thermally by not allowing as much cool down time per combustion cycle?
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Old 07-20-2008, 08:30 PM
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It's a good point about the cooling of the valve, I never thought of that. However, all the failures of these engines seem to be rings or the P's & C's. Never seem to hear of valves burning out on these engines (it's quite popular on the old english Mini engine).

Anyone out there who has?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 07-21-2008, 11:15 AM
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...In answer to the original question, I have SC Cams. They were 'sold' to me as an anti-turbo-lag measure. (Certainly make the car much more 'drivable.')

In my experience, the original turbo and cam gave you absolutely 'nothing' below 4,000rpm, peaks at 5,500rpm and pulls pretty well until the red line.

SC Cams and a K27-7200 give you something by about 2,800rpm, full boost by 3,5000rpm and peak power by 5,000rpm, but kind of run out of steam by 6,000rpm..

Stephen K. told me that SC Cams should add power throughout the rev range (about an extra 20bhp).

I have been told by plently of owners that SC cams are okay, but 964 cams are the best.
Old 07-22-2008, 01:42 PM
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Why didn't Porsche run the 964 cams in the first place? I know these were later model year cams 1989 or so, but they were probably under development before that by a few years.
Or at least they could have run 911SC cams becuase both the cars were in production during the same time period?
Makes me wonder if there is something being overlooked? Valve cooling maybe?
If upgrading why not go 964 and get the better option?
I ran 964 cams in my 911SC and they were a good upgrade. Made power all the way to 7000rpm unlike the SC cams.
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 07-22-2008, 04:44 PM
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Three ugly letters - EPA
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
Why didn't Porsche run the 964 cams in the first place? I know these were later model year cams 1989 or so, but they were probably under development before that by a few years.
Or at least they could have run 911SC cams becuase both the cars were in production during the same time period?
Makes me wonder if there is something being overlooked? Valve cooling maybe?
If upgrading why not go 964 and get the better option?
I ran 964 cams in my 911SC and they were a good upgrade. Made power all the way to 7000rpm unlike the SC cams.
The Special Wishes cars were in fact equipped with the SC cams and K27-7006. So, Porsche was aware of the advantages of the higher lift and slightly longer duration cam. Like you said, the 964 cam was under development as was the more efficient 965 IC. The other thing to consider is the pairing of cams to the turbocharger. The 3DLZ turbo and 930 cams complimented each other fairly well. Neither did much below 3500RPM and then....bang, boost! Then they ran out of breath around 5000. Very much like an on/off switch.

I'm sure there were other reasons, such as unknown engine longevity/warranty issues.
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Old 07-23-2008, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Three ugly letters - EPA
Two more words: "Hold-Over".
Post-Schultz budget-crisis flailing certainly didn't help. My '92 still has the asphyxiating 32mm intake ports that were implemented to compensate for the 3DLZ of nearly 20yrs earlier.
My 3.2 Carrera had far more advanced Motronic injection, but Porsche dragged CIS to '94, and the 930/6X virtually untouched through '92. Even Saab had ditched CIS by then!
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Old 07-23-2008, 09:04 AM
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Now those were good engineering reasons.
Thanks for the info guys.
This forum is cool.
So there is a real advantage worth the trouble going to 964 cams and a k-27 turbo with much better spool and rpm capacity.....thank God michigan has no emissions test. Now all I need is money.
Thank God the economy is so great in Michigan too! Damn I suddenly got very sad!
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 07-25-2008, 05:26 PM
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Have any of you guys with 964 or SC-330 'regrind' cams got an equivalent Dyno chart?:

I'd love to see where the power and boost come in and for how long they are sustained.

Euro 3.3 with SC Cams (timed at 1.55) and a K27-7200-S, no A/C or airpump, and stock exhaust and I/C and wastegate.


(That's only 376FWHP and not 376RWHP, but engine was developing 404FtLbs of Torque at 0.84Bar boost.)
Old 07-26-2008, 11:42 AM
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That's pretty cool. When I did my dyno run we did not measure boost. Looks like it starts to run out of breath but that is probably the wastegate doing its job. The wastegate chatter across the graph starting at 3600 is cool. Too bad there is not better resolution, i would love to know the amplitude of the wastegate pressure releases.
Nice motor btw, 376 is nothing to sneeze at!!!
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Old 07-26-2008, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
Why didn't Porsche run the 964 cams in the first place?
The 1993 Turbo S used 964 cams, polished intake passages and .9 bar to make 381 hp.
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Old 07-26-2008, 01:58 PM
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