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Werk 1,
+1 on the new water pumpers, I agree but will not comment.
I dont get what you mean about Les_garten, if its a joke Ill laugh.
The only one of those cars that I drove that I actually liked was the C4 ZR-1, that was a cool car because it showed that GM actually cared for a second and used their brains (4 cam, 4 valve V-8), but after that they put their thinking caps away, or handed the design board to their accountants.
I am not commenting on these cars anymore because I could keep going untill I grow a beard about the construction of them. Ive worked on cars all my life and see no comparison between a Porsche 911 and a Chevy Corvette at any price. I dont care if the C7 comes out running an 8 second 1/4 time- Ill take a Porsche any day of the week.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:55 PM
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resident samsquamch
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
dont care if the C7 comes out running an 8 second 1/4 time- Ill take a Porsche any day of the week.
...and the church says: AMEN! So much more than numbers...
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:01 PM
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930s rule the wasteland
 
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what does the vette cost in europe? is the price inflated like porsche in the states? would this even out the comparison?
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:45 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Good point. The Vette is big dollars in Europe, but so would the Porsche be in the US if it not for the unbalanced trade agreement ...

Obviously we all love Porsches and the 911 but you gotta give props to a $75K car that is capable of a high 10 second quarter mile bone stock.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 07-23-2008, 06:03 PM
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Imagine what a ZO6 would cost if GM didn't have all that overhead associated with the unions?
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Old 07-23-2008, 10:42 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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You mean what it could cost.
Without a doubt it would be sold for the same price, with or without paying benefits to the employees. Porsche didn't get to be the most profitable self-owned automaker by selling cheap either.
But that's a whole different discussion ...
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 07-24-2008, 03:59 AM
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I would love to see Porsche's profit margin on the GT2 and compare it to the ZO6. My understanding is Porsche is the most profitable car company period.

Of course the other side of Brian's point is how much better would the ZO6 be for the same price if the overhead were lower for GM? Bet that interior wouldn't resemble something from a Malibu.
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
To any body who thinks I dont know what I am talking about. I have driven C3, C4, C4 grandsport, C4 ZR-1, C5 Z06, C6 twin turbo, and highly modded C6 Z06. I have driven all of these cars and some at serious lenth and have the same thing to say everytime "Fun ride, but what a piece of garbage"
Now Im sorry if I have offended anybody's "midlife crisis car", but as someone who works on and has driven many of them, I have my opinion, thank you.

Oh and watching a handfull of my friends die in these plastic Barbie cars has also helped formulate my opinion.

I agree. Despite the fact that I'm in the porsche corner I currently own an early
vette C4. I've owned 3 others prior. I've worked on them and restored them as
well. In order to replace the front spring on a C4 you basically have to raise the entire engine /tranny. Fun to drive and thats it. Pure hell when they break down.
Old 07-24-2008, 10:05 AM
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Porsche Crest

930 LDR,
I'll second that opinion, For the money it's alot of car, I don't think anyone can argue that. Yes, Its not a Porsche, but then nothing else is either.... Craig
Old 07-24-2008, 10:16 AM
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We could own Ferraris.........




(bet this discussion would be completely different)
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:18 AM
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As far as tests go, I find these numbers even more interesting...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/show/powerlaps.shtml
Old 07-24-2008, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jess p View Post
I agree. Despite the fact that I'm in the porsche corner I currently own an early
vette C4. I've owned 3 others prior. I've worked on them and restored them as
well. In order to replace the front spring on a C4 you basically have to raise the entire engine /tranny. Fun to drive and thats it. Pure hell when they break down.
And a Turbo is easier to work on?
I think not.
All performance cars are packaged tightly. Ever seen what has to come off of a Ferrari 460 to do a valve adjustment? I don't hear anyone running down Ferrari because you have to practically pull the back half of the car apart to do much of anything to it.
I continue to be amazed at the bias against domestic car manufacturers in our society. The rampant closed-mindedness is really kind of sad, actually.
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Old 07-24-2008, 12:11 PM
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930s rule the wasteland
 
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just compare apples to apples, level the playing field, put the vette in germany tax and tags and see how they even out.
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:26 PM
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You know I was thinking that a better test would have been:

$200K Porsche GT2 vs $100K Corvette Blue Devil (LT1)

Now THAT would be interesting!

EDIT - sorry about the alphabet soup, it is ZR1, not LT1

.
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Last edited by RarlyL8; 07-25-2008 at 03:43 AM..
Old 07-24-2008, 07:33 PM
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" I know which car I would rather do 180 in,, and it is this car!" Classic line!

I mean, come on,,, leaf springs still!

The Rustang is STILL using a straight axle, for God's sakes!

Bargain!? I would gladly pay the 230k (now) plus,, just to ring that baby out over anything from Detroit!

Sorry, GM,, but the quality is in the puddin'!
Old 07-24-2008, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
" I know which car I would rather do 180 in,, and it is this car!" Classic line!

I mean, come on,,, leaf springs still!

The Rustang is STILL using a straight axle, for God's sakes!

Bargain!? I would gladly pay the 230k (now) plus,, just to ring that baby out over anything from Detroit!

Sorry, GM,, but the quality is in the puddin'!
$250K car and its got those silly Saleen gill slits on the rear valance? Move over Japan, there's a new sheriff in town.

Over 50 years and still the same basic shape?......getting kinda tired of that show in a constant loop.

Engine still behind the rear axle? Please!

What ever engine Porsche designs and builds, must it still leak oil?

How does the saying go? A fool and their money are soon parted?

Sorry, Hayabusa. Couldn't that one pass!
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Old 07-25-2008, 04:51 AM
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Please explain what is wrong with leaf springs? I take it you have never seen a Trans AM car run on track before. Solid Axle will have little advantage over an IRS on a smooth race track.
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Old 07-25-2008, 08:23 AM
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The original development of the ZR1 blue devil called for turbochargers
but was soon scraped when GM couldn't solve high engine compartment
temperatures.

This is interesting though ZR1 blue devil 6.2L V8 620HP supercharged

Ferrari Enzo 6.0L v-12 660hp Normal aspir.


The clear coat on the ZR1 costs $60,000 a gallon as it is a carbon fiber
derivative and according to GM will last the life of the car.
Old 07-25-2008, 09:20 AM
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I hate to see a race horse plow a field, straight line? No thanks!
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Old 07-25-2008, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
You know I was thinking that a better test would have been:

$200K Porsche GT2 vs $100K Corvette Blue Devil (LT1)

Now THAT would be interesting!

EDIT - sorry about the alphabet soup, it is ZR1, not LT1

.
That is fine if you mean the 998 Porsche GT2. After all, you are talking about concept cars at this point.

The Blue Devil is all on paper. The price of gas could kill the project for all we know.
Old 07-25-2008, 10:29 AM
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