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I don't get any emotional response from Corvettes when I am up close, or in them, or see them. That for me is the difference. I used to feel choked up when I saw a hot Porsche before I bought one.

I just prefer Porsches and I am only happy when Porsche is kicking everyone's butt.

For me it is brand loyalty, not reality.

The thing I don't like is watching Porsche rest on their laurels so much, while GM is pulling out all the stops.
Old 07-26-2008, 01:50 PM
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Didn't you know? We are long lost bro's, separated at birth!

That's it then!! I have been wondering who to send the other half this multi-million dollar inheritance to that Dad left us!
Old 07-26-2008, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DDDD View Post
The thing I don't like is watching Porsche rest on their laurels so much, while GM is pulling out all the stops.
That i can agree with. Porsche has done some neat stuff, but it seems like they are running the same plays every time. While they work, it just interesting to see companies like Honda, Nissan, GM, etc bring cars to the market that are light years beyond their normal products. Its kind of like, I expect Porsche to keep upping the bar, instead they kinda keep the bar in place until the absolutely necessary to raise it. How long did it take Porsche to come up with variable cam timing? How about 100hp per litre, NA? Decent fuel efficiency? Water cooling? I could go on.

I love Porsche, especially after taking apart a 69 Vette this weekend, but I kinda wonder where they stopped being PORSCHE and became just another car company.
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:09 PM
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Slightly off topic, but want to put a plug in for ALMS (American Le Mans Series)
what other racing series can you visit where you have full run of the paddock area?
Able to talk to drivers and wrenches?

As a spectator rubbing shoulders with Bergmeister, Henzler and Jim Tafel in the paddock
and them talk to you like a human being? And me and crew being total track idiots!
Try this with Kimi or Alonso!

Random shots from last year:





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Old 07-26-2008, 11:07 PM
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I’ve been watching this thread for a bit and thought I would chime in. When I first saw this video I was wondering, how much HP does the Porsche have? They made is sound like there was something wrong with the Corvette. Not at all. The Porsche wins because it has more power. First, the Porsche has more peak HP. Second the Porsche’s turbo motor likely delivers more power under the curve because it’s a turbo. The nice thing about turbos is you can set the thing up to produce peak torque (sometimes limited by the maximum safe torque allowed by some other part of the car) over most of the rev range. That ability to produce a broad torque range is why a turbo car with “less” HP is often just as fast as a NA car with slightly more peak power.

The problem with the video is they don’t actually mention that the Porsche has more power. Had they given the power stats for both cars I don’t think anyone would be surprised.

I also wanted to address some of the leaf spring comments. Those who thing less of the Corvette because it has “leaf spring” suspension are really just showing how little they know about engineering. That would be as dumb as saying 911’s must handle badly because they have strut suspension… just like a Chevy Cavalier.

The Corvette actually has double wishbones at all four corners… just like the Carrara GT. However, rather than using a coil spring to push the arms down the Corvette uses a cantilevered spring. That spring happens to be higher tech than a simple steal coil. It has more energy density than any alloy spring. It is also, just used as a spring.

Many people, rightly, bash “leaf spring suspension.” However, what they have formed their opinions around is actually a live axle supported by leaf springs. Yes, there is a reason why that type of suspension is no longer used on any car sold in the US. It really does have a lot of performance limitations. However, none of those limitations apply to the Corvette.

Leaf spring suspension has friction between the leaves of the spring… well not the corvette as it has a single leaf

Leaf spring suspension has a heavy unsprung axle… unless we are talking about the Corvette which uses independent suspension.

Leaf spring suspension isn’t independent due to the live axle… see above.

Leaf spring suspension doesn’t do a good job of dealing with side loads because the leaves can twist… unless you happen to support the axles with double A-arms like the Corvette.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvette_leaf_springs

Really, there are reasons to bash the Corvette but this video isn’t one and neither is the rather clever and quite advanced leaf spring.
Old 07-27-2008, 07:01 AM
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This is the Dyno curve for a ZO6.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQQE8OIayrs
This is the only thing I can find for the new GT2.

Has about 40rwhp on the Vette. That is a pretty big spread.
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by wisheyehad12 View Post
Thanks for the link, it all makes perfect sense now.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:19 PM
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Hmm...Z06 claims 505hp. GT2 997 is 530hp. GT2 probably has much better torque (thus area under power curve). Also, Corvette's tranny sounds pretty worn.

And last and not the least: when Porsche says it has 530hp it really means 530hp to the last decimal, dynoed for every single engine. I don't know how GM counts their ponnies but it wouldn't surprise me if it was "let's take the freshest looking Z06, dyno it with best gas available, without waterpump, generator etc."
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Old 07-27-2008, 02:01 PM
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i think they all have to comply to the same restrictions when listing their power output, (SAE?) ....

but ya, the haf the price point is kinda a big deal... but what i find an even bigger deal is how the cars seem 10, 15, and 20 years later.

i work at a used import lots (when not going to school, my friend is the owner, www.tyeeimports.com) we get lots of high hp cars , and we get some vettes and the odd special order porsche as well...

@ 15 years old the vettes look like crap and are often falling apart...
@ 15 years old the japanese cars are tech loaded and sometimes really fast, but they have 90's styling (okay really) and questionable reliability... if they are making the big numbers.
@ 10, 15, 20, 25, +++ years porsches, especially 911s look great, have a solid feel, and though they are not the fastest cars, they are still worth a good deal more....

just my 5 cents on the matter... i'd love to have either car, though i would actualy just turn around and sell them... both are tooooo fast for the street, no fun... 250-350hp in something a little lighters (under 2500lbs) w/o traction control, launch control or any of that stuff... and a few months rent.

cheers
N
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Old 07-27-2008, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by beepbeep View Post
Hmm...Z06 claims 505hp. GT2 997 is 530hp. GT2 probably has much better torque (thus area under power curve). Also, Corvette's tranny sounds pretty worn.

And last and not the least: when Porsche says it has 530hp it really means 530hp to the last decimal, dynoed for every single engine. I don't know how GM counts their ponnies but it wouldn't surprise me if it was "let's take the freshest looking Z06, dyno it with best gas available, without waterpump, generator etc."
GM is actually very good about not over estimating. When the Z06 was about to hit the streets GM rated the car at 500hp. However, when the SAE closed a number of testing loopholes which allowed companies some testing latitude GM made a big deal they the Z06 would be the first car tested under the new rules. The car tested 505 under the newer, tighter rules. GM had a number of car's whose power went up under the new testing standards. I have seen nothing that suggests Porsche is as conservative in general. Also the 505 is SAE not DIN. Most German cars report DIN numbers.

All that said, I am certain Porsche isn’t over estimating the GT2. I wouldn’t be surprised if the car has an over boost like the 911T. It, like some other turbo cars, may produce more than rated power on cool days. Cold air means more boost before knock becomes an issue.

In this case I would say the 911 just plain had more power.
Old 07-27-2008, 03:23 PM
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Didn't Porsche use the worst or lowest engine run to publish their engine HP's? Thats why they say some are lucky but not unusual to get a Carrera engine with 220 or 230 HP?
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Old 07-27-2008, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisheyehad12 View Post
GM is actually very good about not over estimating. When the Z06 was about to hit the streets GM rated the car at 500hp. However, when the SAE closed a number of testing loopholes which allowed companies some testing latitude GM made a big deal they the Z06 would be the first car tested under the new rules. The car tested 505 under the newer, tighter rules. GM had a number of car's whose power went up under the new testing standards. I have seen nothing that suggests Porsche is as conservative in general. Also the 505 is SAE not DIN. Most German cars report DIN numbers.

All that said, I am certain Porsche isn’t over estimating the GT2. I wouldn’t be surprised if the car has an over boost like the 911T. It, like some other turbo cars, may produce more than rated power on cool days. Cold air means more boost before knock becomes an issue.

In this case I would say the 911 just plain had more power.
German (being German) use DIN. Deutche Industri-Norm.
GM uses SAE. So they aren't dynoed with same norm.

Quote:
Horsepower is a measurement of the engine's ability to perform work. One SAE
horse is the ability to lift 33,000 lbs one foot in one minute. One DIN
horse is the ability to lift 450000 kg one cm in one minute. For the same
power the SAE measurement is thus 98.629% of the metric DIN measurement.
DIN 70020 + DIN 6270 = Deutsche Industrie Normen 70020 und 6270. The standard is very precise when it comes to keeping everything original. Thus air-inled, filter, fan, generator, waterpump, orgiginal exhaust, they all must be there.

I don't have the details of SAE J1349 tests. What are "newer, thighter rules"? Is engine tested with everything on it, using original exhaust system?
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Old 07-27-2008, 03:49 PM
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I'm not sure what all the SAE changed when they issued the new rules. There were a number of articles a while back. When GM rates the Z06 in Europe it's power is 512 hp. I don't know if they retested or if the two tests are close enough where you can convert from one to the other. I know the size of the pony is different but the test conditions I think are also different. The new SAE standards seems to have been intended to crack down on some abuses by some of the automakers. Toyota under the new SAE guidelines the Toyota Camry V6 dropped from 210hp to 190hp.

In any case, I don’t think we can accuse GM of playing fast and loose with the test rules.
Old 07-27-2008, 03:56 PM
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I have some Questions

have been looking for this car for a couple months online for a Porsche Lease and i found this company that i ordered it through they were able to find me the exact car i was looking for. I am a picky person i wanted some hard things to find and they found it for me thier Residual value and prices were great if you have time check out this site and let me know what you think about it.Here is the Link to the lease they offer Please reply let me know what you think
Old 07-28-2008, 11:32 AM
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have been looking for this car for a couple months online for a Porsche Lease and i found this company that i ordered it through they were able to find me the exact car i was looking for. I am a picky person i wanted some hard things to find and they found it for me thier Residual value and prices were great if you have time check out this site and let me know what you think about it.Here is the Link to the lease they offer Please reply let me know what you think
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:44 AM
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Spam, I've reported it.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
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1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 07-28-2008, 12:56 PM
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Here is a shot of the new ZR1 a friend took while at GM corporate:

Doesn't look too bad... Though I still would not trade!
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:03 AM
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I love my 911, and am a chevy guy at heart. I work in the automotive field, so I thought I would chime in. The corvette is a hell of a car. Of course its not a gt2, but in that case we should find a speed test with a car faster that the gt2, and put the porsche down. I think that z06 held its own for the cost of the car. That z06 motor is bullet proof. Wait till 09 when the z06 has a blown motor in it with 630is HP. Dont get me wrong, but your looking at a car that costs the same new as some of the old turbo porsche's are selling for. Maybe we should be fair and put the z06 against the cayman since price is about the same. I bet everyone that put the corvette down would be a little more quiet. I'm not getting mad, but this is apples and oranges. Both nice cars, Porsche is nicer in my opinion, but dont act like the corvette isnt americana qnd a head turner non the less. Bye the way I like the old 911 interiors. New ones are plasticy and looks like it was designed by toyota jmho
Old 08-06-2008, 10:01 PM
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There is absolutely no reason to put the Corvette down. What Porsche can you buy new for $75K? A Boxster? HA! Test that!
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:00 AM
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Porsche Gt 2 , gt 3s and Corvetts are great cars however the lap times at Road America on 930s that are not even fully returned to the original homolegation spefications as developed over 30 years ago can easly exceede either of those. 930s are top performers even by todays super car standards. Restore your 930 to original build specs and few will be able to stay close to you. Porsche went to turbo after the RSR when, in their development evaluation, the other induction methods had reached its limits.

Last edited by voitureltd; 08-07-2008 at 05:36 AM..
Old 08-07-2008, 05:25 AM
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