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Wayah Road Warrior
 
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Join Date: Jun 2002
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930 Down - Place your bets here!

The wife woke me up early this morning and said ... Let's go for a ride in the mountains!"

15 minutes into the drive, the engine just quit.

The facts:
  • Engine at low- normal temp (~180)
  • Gas tank at 1/2
  • Speed normal at around 65-70
  • No boost involved this early in the drive
  • No engine missing, no funny noises or other indications before the failure
  • Front fuel pump still whines
  • Battery still cranks

Called SCDOT who called a flatbed for pickup and delivery to the mechanic.

I was VERY lucky this happened close to 'civilization'. Once deep in the mountains, there is no cell service and all you hear are banjos off in the holler.
This is my first 'issue' with this car since purchase. I am guessing a failed wire/connector?

Place your bets as to the cause and I will report back once I have written the check







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Last edited by Shadetree930; 08-10-2008 at 01:56 PM..
Old 08-10-2008, 08:04 AM
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Sorry to hear of you misfortune. My guess one of the fuel pump relays. Just had it happen to me. The front pump was working, but not the rear. Replaced relay with a spare in glove box, presto! Drove it home.
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Old 08-10-2008, 09:02 AM
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Wayah Road Warrior
 
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Doh! If it turns out to be something that simple I am going to be embarrassed!

I should have checked relays before I called a flatbed.
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Last edited by Shadetree930; 08-10-2008 at 01:57 PM..
Old 08-10-2008, 10:15 AM
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Wayah Road Warrior
 
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We have a winner! Thank you Werk-I.

You just saved me some mechanics charges. I don't know why I did not think to look in the fuse panel. I had all the proper fuses and relays in my road kit.

It was a fuel pump fuse. I went back to the mechanic's shop and took a look at the fuse panel.

One of the fuel pump fuses had blown. Not just blown, but the plastic casing had melted as well.

I McGuyvered a new fuse in place and she fired right up.

I have it back at home now and will take pictures. Its not as cut and dried as it could be. Looks like so PO did some work in there. Not sure why yet.

Pics to follow.
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Last edited by Shadetree930; 08-10-2008 at 01:50 PM..
Old 08-10-2008, 11:37 AM
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Wayah Road Warrior
 
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Well here is the story in pictures:

Here is the blade fuse that I removed. Its a 25 amp fuse. There was a rubber insulator around it but that crumbled when I started getting into the connections. Crumbled because of high heat.



Here is the basic outline of how it was wired (all insulation removed at this point and a get-me-home fuse in place).
I replaced the burned out fuse 25 with a new 20 amp fuse. Wrapped it in plastic to keep it from shorting out and drove it home.



Once home, I put in a 25 amp fuse and put electrical tape around the connectors to keep them from making contact and then wrapped the whole thing in tape until I figure out why this was set up this way.



I can not see a logical explanation for this.

What do you think the motivation was behind this design change? Why not just go with the factory fuse on the OEM fuse block?
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Last edited by Shadetree930; 08-10-2008 at 01:55 PM..
Old 08-10-2008, 12:36 PM
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rewire

Look on Pelican board/site/tech articles for fuel pump rewiring for 930 fuel pump circuit. Everyone has to, or will have to, do it to eliminate problems like you had today. EPS
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Old 08-10-2008, 02:04 PM
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Wayah Road Warrior
 
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Pelican search is not giving me much meat.

Best I can find is an off-hand reference to both pumps running through one circuit so people put in a second fuse.

Can you point to something more detailed? Basically I am trying to find out if what I have is a hack job or just some good wiring that still met its maker.
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Last edited by Shadetree930; 08-10-2008 at 02:45 PM..
Old 08-10-2008, 02:22 PM
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Wayah Road Warrior
 
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Found this on Rennlist. Refers to Lee Rice. I think I am getting closer.

Here's an extract of an article written on trouble shooting the fuel pumps...hope this helps. Giving the author his credit...it was written by Lee Rice.

Fuel Pumps on 930 Turbo, 1977-1989, (1976 used a single pump)

Both fuel pumps take power from one fuse (#16). Install a two gang fuse block, Nr. 911.612.085.04, near main fuse strips and run a red 3.0 cm/2 red wire from the battery terminal directly to the new fuse terminal, at the two gang end. The two fuel pump relay sockets for pump #1 and #2 have a red wire 2.5 cm/2 running from fuse #16 to terminal #30 of pump #2 and then run over to terminal #30 of pump socket #1. Cut the wire running between the two pins, #30, and securely splice it by solder and good insulation to a new 3.0 cm/2 red wire, running it to the new fuse block at #2. Be sure to solder the wire end before installing it to the fuse block. Remove the red 2.5 cm/2 wire from fuse #16 and run it to the new fuse block and attach it to the #1 fused terminal. #2 fuse should be a blue 25 amp, as it will still power the warm-up devises as well as the #2 fuel pump. #1 fuse can be a red 16 amp fuse.


Any experts able to tell if this is just some hack wiring or is it THE UPGRADE?
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Last edited by Shadetree930; 08-10-2008 at 02:44 PM..
Old 08-10-2008, 02:29 PM
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Not an expert, but it's possible your fuel pumps are drawing more amperage as they have gotten older.
Thats just a guess, and that aftermarket fuse holder may have been low quality and eventually burned up from age and use.

You never know what electrical problems these 20+ year old cars may have next.
Seems alot of the electrical stuff was piggybacked onto the fuse box as the years went by, and the factory could have done better.
Kinda like CIS injection... would have been nice if the 930 got motronic in the early 80's like the Carrera did.

Mine just quit one day too.
Luckily I was only a few miles from home. I keep a 50 foot rope in the trunk for just such things, and a call to a buddy with a pick up truck got me home.

It was the ignition coil that quit on mine.
Old 08-10-2008, 03:51 PM
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I would have bet it was the yellow relay ...

which also cuts the fuel pumps.
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Old 08-10-2008, 04:04 PM
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930 Down

When was the last time you replaced the fuel filter? The rear pump has to work against a potentially clogged filter while the front pump only has to pull the fuel from the tank (gravity) and send it to the rear pump. That is, if my theory on the pump unloading and pressure distribution is correct.

Just a thought.

Also, I would lose that red wire/fuse setup. The proper way to do the upgrade included a securely mounted fuse socket.

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 08-10-2008, 04:05 PM
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Here is the link for the article and diagram that can be found in the tech articles section on this board:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/rice_ramblings/rice_ramblings-2.htm
I made this conversion several years ago and so far, no issues.
Old 08-10-2008, 08:57 PM
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Wayah Road Warrior
 
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Thanks OSI930.

I am still not sure if what I am looking at is the upgrade as per Lee Rice's article. It looks pretty close to me but then if it is, why did the fuse melt like that?

Hmmmm....
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Last edited by Shadetree930; 08-11-2008 at 06:00 AM..
Old 08-11-2008, 04:50 AM
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I was going to bet you forgot to put GAS in it!
Old 08-11-2008, 05:44 AM
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Wayah Road Warrior
 
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C'mon now! Give me just a little bit of credit.
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prials View Post
Thanks OSI930.

I am still not sure if what I am looking at is the upgrade as per Lee Rice's article. It looks pretty close to me but then if it is, why did the fuse melt like that?

Hmmmm....
You need to bypass the fuse block all together and splice into the wiring harness. What the previous owner attempted was a mickey mouse facsimile of the Rice mod. Each fuel pump should be wired to a separate fuse in a marine quality fuse holder. In your picture, both pumps are still wired to a single fuse. This does NOT solve the original problem of both pumps fused together.

JP
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:29 AM
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Wayah Road Warrior
 
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Thank you for your input JP, I could not see how this took the load off of the other OEM fuse either.
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:51 AM
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