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Intercooler design for Supercharger - Expertise Welcomed

Hi all,

I found a shop to do the s'charger mounts...I dropped in to interview them and found them installing dual Opcon/Autorotors on a 1000hp 4cl VW bug engine and seeing their workmanship I am completely at ease with them. Plus they are karters and mountainbikers so the deal was sealed.

I am seeking some help in designing the intercooler. I have an area about 13" (32cm) by 20" (50cm) which will get airflow in from the tail. The tail is a bespoke lightweight FG turbo tail replica. There are an additional ~ 3" (80mm) of room at towards the front of the car for the outlet end tank if needed. Depth is free (at least 4" available.)

I'd appreciate any advice regarding left-to-right or aft-to-front flow. This is a track-only car with a goal of ~475 crank HP and 1.2-1.5 bar (14-20 psi) boost.



I understand there may be advantages of a short-but-wide 'cooler vs a longer-but-narrower one but I'm not smart enough to trust my conjecture here. I was thinking (and based almost entirely on Corky's book) that the aft-to-fore flow which is short but wide, with baffled end tanks to ensure disbursement of the charged air would be preferential.

Also, I have engaged Bell in some design discussions also based on his books but also interested if anyone can vouch for any intercooler builders Down Under.

Thanks all,
John
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2007 911 Turbo - Not a toy
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1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen"
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Old 08-31-2008, 03:49 AM
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For the IC direction, think of breathing through 2 straws or 6, same diameter but different lengths. 6 is easier.
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Old 08-31-2008, 04:10 AM
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No wisdom on the IC design, but supercharged systems are frequently set up with the throttle body on the air filter side of the blower. This means the whole air column from the entrance to the blower to the intake valves is "throttled volume."

The upshot is that you want to keep the throttled volume relatively small to minimize throttle lag (split second lag between pressing accelerator and when engine responds - or split second lag between when you come off the throttle and when the engine backs off).

If you are designing in this configuration, try to keep your tubing runs shorter rather than longer. If you've got the throttle body on the manifold, look out for how you'll dump boost when you come off the throttle.
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:08 PM
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Thanks guys. My throttle will indeed be before the supercharger. I will be running a bypass valve from the supercharger-to-intercooler manifold back to the throttle-to-supercharger manifold.

Heres a more refined drawing of the potential layout. Any suggestions? I know the end tanks are different designs but those seem to be the most space-economical for the mounting locations.

Also, other than Bell, any other suggested builders/suppliers? Any here in Oz or NZ?

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1971 911 Targa S backroad toy
Old 09-02-2008, 05:23 AM
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Sorry, another question...I'd really like to hear what the deepest (front-to-back measurement) people are able to fit underneath a 930 tail. I have a fiberglass replica tail and a donor tailbase I can cut up. I'd appreciate some measurements of depth (top-bottom) and front-back.

Oh, also what manifold you have. The 930 manifolds are quite a bit shorter/flatter than the one I have so ideally looking to see what others have been able to squeeze in any configuration.

Thanks all
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2007 911 Turbo - Not a toy
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1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen"
1971 911 Targa S backroad toy

Last edited by JohnJL; 09-03-2008 at 02:33 AM..
Old 09-03-2008, 01:43 AM
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100% add a fan to the IC - a must ---
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:41 AM
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Thanks Craig.

Little help guys on your IC dimensions and tails?


Needs to fit inside this (placed my order with AIR this morning)
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Last edited by JohnJL; 09-04-2008 at 02:23 PM..
Old 09-04-2008, 01:33 PM
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oops, forgot the pic...same tail as Reaper's. Imitation is the highest form of flattery right?

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1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen"
1971 911 Targa S backroad toy
Old 09-04-2008, 02:26 PM
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Aw, please? Do I need to start calling favors? Pretty please?
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1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen"
1971 911 Targa S backroad toy
Old 09-07-2008, 01:05 AM
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I agree that imitation is the highest form of flattery however that tail isn't the one I have....but close and possibly better looking on a 930 than mine . That's the modified take on the 934/5 tail with a NACA duct on top on the driver's side.

I have the shop getting dimensions for you, i'll be giving you a shout about tuesday or so.

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Last edited by Reaper930; 09-07-2008 at 05:01 AM..
Old 09-07-2008, 04:57 AM
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Bump, would please please please appreciate anyone's front-to-back intercooler dimensions and what tail/manifold you have. Please.
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1982 911 3.2 Indiash Rot Track Supercharged track toy
1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen"
1971 911 Targa S backroad toy
Old 09-10-2008, 05:09 AM
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John,
What type tail/intercooler dimensions do you need? I can get you demensions for both stock and GT2 tails.
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:28 AM
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Hi Warren,
I'm interested in as many datapoints as I can get. Specifically I am trying to place an order to fit under a Lemans tail like above with Carrera intake. The key dimension for me is front-to-back.

Thanks!
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1985 911 Cab - Wife's toy
1982 911 3.2 Indiash Rot Track Supercharged track toy
1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen"
1971 911 Targa S backroad toy
Old 09-10-2008, 02:53 PM
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Warren was our buddy here on P/P that passed earlier this year; my name is Brian. Sorry for the confusion.

The largest tail I have is a GT2. Don't know if that helps but I'll take measurements if you need them.

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Old 09-10-2008, 08:39 PM
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D'oh, I knew that. It was still early my morning...yes, would very much appreciate that Brian.
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1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen"
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:40 PM
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John, Sorry it took so long.

Width 29"
Thickness 2 3/4"
Front to back: 10"



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Old 09-11-2008, 09:16 PM
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Is the 10" front-to-back the core only or including one of the tanks?

Thanks!
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2007 911 Turbo - Not a toy
1985 911 Cab - Wife's toy
1982 911 3.2 Indiash Rot Track Supercharged track toy
1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen"
1971 911 Targa S backroad toy
Old 09-11-2008, 09:27 PM
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Sorry John, the front tank (that goes under the actual chassis is 7 1/4" to meet with the intercooler plumbing. Which is 3" back from the front of the frontmost part of the intake manifold (hope that made sense).

That is in addition to the 10" core.
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
100% add a fan to the IC - a must ---
What's the best way to control a fan in this circumstance? Thermostat? If so what intake temp? Inboost? If so at what psi, KPA, bar?
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Old 09-12-2008, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJL View Post
Sorry, another question...I'd really like to hear what the deepest (front-to-back measurement) people are able to fit underneath a 930 tail. I have a fiberglass replica tail and a donor tailbase I can cut up. I'd appreciate some measurements of depth (top-bottom) and front-back.

Oh, also what manifold you have. The 930 manifolds are quite a bit shorter/flatter than the one I have so ideally looking to see what others have been able to squeeze in any configuration.

Thanks all
I have a Carrera manifold. My intercooler is a front to back design. 28"wide x 15" deep including tanks x 3.25" tall. The core is 11" long. The cooler fits in a Big Base Carrera Tail. It looks like a RS America tail but with a bigger base.



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Old 09-13-2008, 08:39 PM
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