Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
tj930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: England
Posts: 301
930 CIS Maximum Power?

Just wondering what the limit of CIS is.

Has anybody on here upped their engine to 3.4 and fitted a K29 variant? (If so, what kind of results did you get?)

Is 450FWHP the limit? (Is 500FWHP possible?)
Old 09-02-2008, 03:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Infidel
 
JBL930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,172
It would be good to know what a modified fuel head would deliver with maximum system pressure with either a finely tuned adjustable WUR or digi unit.
Old 09-02-2008, 04:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 4,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by tj930 View Post
Just wondering what the limit of CIS is.

Has anybody on here upped their engine to 3.4 and fitted a K29 variant? (If so, what kind of results did you get?)

Is 450FWHP the limit? (Is 500FWHP possible?)
I have that setup, but have never dyno'd the car. I also have the euro fuel head and fuel enrichment. I do suspect 400whp is near the max w/ CIS.
__________________
Bryan O.
77 930
08 Boxster
14 535i M Sport
Old 09-02-2008, 05:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,258
Garage
The limit depends upon how far you wish to modify the CIS.
Typical mods such as the adjustabe-WUR and high-flo fuel head will support 450WHP with a lot of tuning. It is taken for granted twin plugs, good fuel and perfect timing will be utilized. There is not much margin for safety at that level.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-02-2008, 06:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,190
Exactly. 438 RWHP here, and that is about it -
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 09-02-2008, 07:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
A fellow Pelacanite
 
NathanUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,002
Garage
Craig, thats over 500bhp at the crank and you don't have a Digiwur. That seems pretty good to me!
Do you have a black euro head or a silver USA one?
__________________
1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-02-2008, 12:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,020
I got 360hp or so at the wheel during a dyno run with reg. streel fuel. its twin plug, crank fired, euro fuel head, andial enrichment and it is a 3.4L. with a k27. flame ringed and a bunch of internal stuff.

Jeff
Old 09-02-2008, 01:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Metal Guru
 
911nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,502
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by look 171 View Post
I got 360hp or so at the wheel during a dyno run with reg. streel fuel. its twin plug, crank fired, euro fuel head, andial enrichment and it is a 3.4L. with a k27. flame ringed and a bunch of internal stuff.
Jeff
The Andial enrichment device is an excellent door stop.....
__________________
Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 09-02-2008, 01:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,258
Garage
The WUR, be it manually adjustable or digital, has limited effect on how much HP the CIS system will suport. That function is relegated to the fuel head and system pressure/flow. The WUR controls the pressures it is given to work with under various conditions.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-02-2008, 01:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
beepbeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,515
You can get a lot but it's not worth it. Typically, it's not fuel that is biggest issue but the barn-door. By EDM:ing out the fuel chanells, you can flow lot's of fuel but the more the power you try to squeeze from K-Jet the bigger differential between EFI and K-Jet you get.

I believe Micke Svens got over 500hp from K-Jet. But it is probably more cost effective to ditch the K-Jet alltogether when chasing those power levels.
__________________
Thank you for your time,
Old 09-02-2008, 01:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Infidel
 
JBL930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,172
Craig, what is your system pressure at?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
Exactly. 438 RWHP here, and that is about it -
Old 09-02-2008, 02:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,190
Black fuel head IA modified, WUR preset by Brian and needed one tiny tweak - I don't know the pressure 'cause I didn't have to ;-)

AFRs are as flat as a 1905 table - pretty damn flat -
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 09-02-2008, 04:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
Black fuel head IA modified, WUR preset by Brian and needed one tiny tweak - I don't know the pressure 'cause I didn't have to ;-)

What boost pressure are you at to make 438 RWHP? Electronic boost control or just the WG spring? Do you have Brian's RPM module?
Old 09-02-2008, 04:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
DonE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Brooks, GA
Posts: 1,211
Before I changed to EFI, I had a highly modified CIS car that produced 420 rwhp, 402 ft lbs torque (personally, I think torque is more impressive than HP). Here are the specs:
> modified fuel head (14% more flow over stock)
> fuel pin modification (probably did nothing to help)
> euro fuel head and lines
> modified WUR (cold, warm and enrichment pressures modified)
> 964 cams
> Turbo Performance turbo
> B&B header
> straight through Mangnaflow muffler (best bang for the buck - added nearly 20hp for $125)
> stock airbox, but added 6 1" holes, KN filter
> extrude honed manifold
> matched CIS injectors
> 1 bar boost, TIAL wastegate
> Kokeln intercooler

Keep in mind dynos vary widely between makes and operators.
Old 09-02-2008, 05:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,190
1 bar. WG spring in a Tial works just fine. RPM module - for me - was a MUST to prevent huge amts of fuel too early.

How much delay, you say? 5,200 RPM delay until full boost enrichment!

These cars really widely vary, even amongst identical builds.
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 09-02-2008, 06:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Valrico Florida
Posts: 199
The fuel can be coerced by readily available modifications to exceed the capabilities of the air supply on the CIS. That is ultimately the limiting factor. There are a lot of right-hand turns on the way to the cylinders. Measure the length of the induction system from air-box inlet to intake valve and count the turns. I think you'll be surprised.
__________________
'77 930 turbo Garretson I/C 1 BAR spring, (2) '82 Triumph Bonneville Royal Wedding Edition
Past rides: '74 914 1.9 liter twin plugged track car, '83 928S, '87 924S, '75 911S w '78 ROW 3.0, '72 911T, '70 911T and various other insignificant domestic examples. Happiness is a grey tailpipe! Turbo lag......it's worth the wait!
Old 09-02-2008, 07:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Infidel
 
JBL930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,172
It would be really usefull to know your system presure, i'm shocked that Brian got your control pressures so close without knowing your system pressure.
I'm led to believe that a modified euro head doesn't flow as much as a modified US head, not sure how much fact is in that comment though.
You are getting around 500 fwbhp with a nice fuel curve, that would be enough for most, i agree that IF you are going so far as to twin plug, flame ring, 3.4ltr, blah blah then you should just go EFI, makes sense, but for a stop gap for a street driven car your set up sounds great on the way to EFI.
When you next have it in the shop it would be helpful if they would check your settings, firstly system pressure, then warm cruise control presssure, and then WOT/boost control pressure. Would make a good bench mark for those following in your footsteps.

You're not in Miami are you? I'd love to see your car, i'm here on holiday, sweating like a typical Englishman downing Mojito's



Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
1 bar. WG spring in a Tial works just fine. RPM module - for me - was a MUST to prevent huge amts of fuel too early.

How much delay, you say? 5,200 RPM delay until full boost enrichment!

These cars really widely vary, even amongst identical builds.
Old 09-02-2008, 08:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,190
No, not Miami - Washington State -

"stop gap for street driven car"
Ah yeah.....it's a street driven pussymobile
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 09-02-2008, 11:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Infidel
 
JBL930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,172
Sorry, that didn't come across right, what i ment was a lot of people wanting high HP probably can't afford to do the whole engine AND EFI at the same time, if they knew they could get a reliable 500 fwbhp from CIS they may think about building a good solid engine first and running it for a while on CIS then making the switch to EFI later. I'm sure if you had the chance you would have a full Motec EFI set up right?
The street driven comment was just me thinking that having a car on the edge fuel wise, and tracking it hard, was probably not the best idea, I certainly wasn't calling you a pussy You pussy
Old 09-03-2008, 04:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,190
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 09-03-2008, 07:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:57 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2016 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.