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Smart quod bastardus
 
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those dam air injector plugs

I am having this consistent problem with the little plugs for the air injector ports keep falling out.
When you remove the emissions crap for the air injectors into the cylinder heads you need to seal the threaded opening with a threaded plug. I have found that a 1/8 NPT pipe plug works ok but the proper way is a metric fitting sold here on Pelican.
Anyway, I have used both inserts/methods and every once in a while one falls out after driving the car for awhile, usually hard driving on track.
I am guessing this is thermal expansion related but the problem has happened 4 times now with different cylinders effected each time. I nly have to have it happen twice more and I have gone thru every exhaust port with new plugs.
My questionis does anyone have the same issue?
Is there some sort of high temp loctite thread sealant you can tell me to try and lock these in permanently?

Never had one fall out on my 911SC in 11 years. This turbo is another story....I can only guess because of higher head temps.
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 09-04-2008, 01:46 PM
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Had 'em in for about a year now on my '79 and not had any problems - touch wood...

Think I put some Loctite I had lying around from the engine rebuild on there.
Old 09-04-2008, 03:24 PM
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I've had mine in for about two years now and haven't touched 'em.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
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Old 09-04-2008, 05:37 PM
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OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
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No problems here. Are you using the alum washer with them? Loctit or JB Weld them in if you have to.
Old 09-04-2008, 07:10 PM
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I put mine in with red loctite. They're not going anywhere and would probably need to be heated with a torch to remove them.
Old 09-04-2008, 09:11 PM
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if anyone has the part number handy for the plugs and the washer...could you post them please, as I need to buy a few.... Thanks
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 09-05-2008, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrat930 View Post
if anyone has the part number handy for the plugs and the washer...could you post them please, as I need to buy a few.... Thanks
I just recently bought a set from Pelican ...
PEL-BRC-02 at $2.95 each "Air Injection Smog Pump Port Plug, sold per each, 911/911 Turbo 1975-83"
They come with copper washers.
Don't worry about the year range, they fit my car which is 1986.

I was actually wondering if they would work loose. I was considering drilling and safety wiring them to a nearby fin.
I'm not so sure about relying on Loctite though. Most Loctite grades don't work at exhaust port temperatures - you normally heat parts to break the Loctite joint.
Old 09-05-2008, 02:23 AM
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Cool, thanks for the info....

I love safety wire!!!!!!! HAHA...DonE..that was just for you!!!
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 09-05-2008, 04:28 AM
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Smart quod bastardus
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billjam View Post
I just recently bought a set from Pelican ...
PEL-BRC-02 at $2.95 each "Air Injection Smog Pump Port Plug, sold per each, 911/911 Turbo 1975-83"
They come with copper washers.
Don't worry about the year range, they fit my car which is 1986.

I was actually wondering if they would work loose. I was considering drilling and safety wiring them to a nearby fin.
I'm not so sure about relying on Loctite though. Most Loctite grades don't work at exhaust port temperatures - you normally heat parts to break the Loctite joint.
Thats exactly my problem, even using red loctite they are still coming loose. I thought of safety wiring them, but running the wire from one plug to the next is hard with all that tubing and head stuff under there.
Anyone know of very high temp Loctite number that will sustain 500 degree temps or so. The red stuff is only rated around 200-250 degrees.
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 09-05-2008, 08:54 AM
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What seals are you using?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-05-2008, 12:50 PM
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Smart quod bastardus
 
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same seals that come with PEL-BRC-02 at $2.95 each "Air Injection Smog Pump Port Plug, sold per each, 911/911 Turbo 1975-83"
Look like aluminum washers.
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 09-05-2008, 01:57 PM
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spray all the oil off the threads in the head with brake clean first, and put them in tight with red loctite and they won't come out if you do that right.

the plugs i used are flush allen head things that look like stainless steel, and came from automotion.

being flush, there's no way to safety wire them.
Old 09-05-2008, 03:08 PM
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OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
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if you've used a pipe plug first and then the correct metric Allen head plug, that might be part of the problem. The pipe plug might have oversized it?
Old 09-05-2008, 06:09 PM
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Stephen told me to use the rings that sealed the injectors in there.

Using a tapered plug should have stretched the threads a little but really the sealing washer should provide the friction and allow for expansion/contraction to stop them backing out.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-06-2008, 03:38 AM
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Talk about coincidence....mine fell out last nite during a test run and I needed to get it fixed before a club run today. Car sounded like a 65 VW on its last legs...called my indy and he met me at his shop...racked it up and put in the plugs which actually came from Mercedes Benz...part number 000-990-44-77. They come in a package of six and have locktite already on them ready to install...and they're metric allen...I think 5 or 6 mm.

My previous indy used SAE sized allen plugs...probably the pipe plug referenced above in a previous response....but so far three of those have fallen out....they don't stay in. We checked some of the other SAE fittings, and they had all come loose.
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1987 factory Slantnosed 930 Cabriolet/Guard's red
2002 Midnight Blue 996TT X50
1999 Iris Blue 996 (Dash fire burned and totalled 9/07)
Old 09-06-2008, 07:04 PM
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Chuck, did those Merc parts also use a sealing washer?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-07-2008, 01:57 AM
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I'm not taking any chances ... I have lock-wired my new plugs in place.
This is quite easy if your heads are off but not really practical otherwise.
I drilled 1.5mm hole through the head of the plugs and a 2.5mm hole through head fin close to the port then used some 1mm tie wire ...


Old 09-07-2008, 04:00 AM
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Nice work, but the problem with wiring is that it is not easy to check them for tq now.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-07-2008, 06:39 AM
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some safety wiring info

Safety wire is meant to be routed around the bolt head in a way that it would be tightening the bolt as in the following example.


I learned all this during my m/c racing days...Here is the web where I got the picture from
http://www.ultralightnews.com/pilotslounge/safetywire.htm
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Old 09-07-2008, 08:36 AM
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Nathan: No...these don't have the bolt head on them, they are allen heads, so they have no lip that would accomodate a washer, and just screw all the way in and end up flush with the surface.
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1987 factory Slantnosed 930 Cabriolet/Guard's red
2002 Midnight Blue 996TT X50
1999 Iris Blue 996 (Dash fire burned and totalled 9/07)
Old 09-07-2008, 10:07 AM
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