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1st Post! 1988 911 or 1988 930? HELP!

How sweet - fresh meat! O.K. guys, here's a little "bio" - I'm 52 years ANCIENT, and I've owned restored/restified ~23 American musclecars in my miserable life so far. Been "out of the fold" for the last five years; for WHATEVER foolish reason, I've become intrigued with "foreign musclecars", specifically considering a 1987-1989 911 Carrera Coupe, or the same thing in a Turbo variant. In doing my due diligence, I've gotten alittle intimidated by the "foreign factor", to wit:

- My metric tool inventory looks like a 6 year old's!
- My knees are quivering when I read the prices of parts and labor to maintain these beauties (beasts!)
- I'm getting more "learned opinions" than I care to disseminate!

O.K. - assuming I'm INSANE enough to proceed forward with this obsession (trust me on this one - Big Chuck Manson's got NUTHIN' on ME!), riddle me this, Batmen - I'm looking at two fairly tidy examples currently; a 1988 40K mile 911 Carrera for an overpriced ~$32K from a dealer, and a 1988 ~75K mile 930 Turbo from a private individual for ~$30K. I really dig the looks of the Turbo more; better color combo, widebody, etc. - plus I like the idea of "owner to owner". In gathering opinions from those more learned than myself in things Porsche, I'm getting a common thread: "Do NOT buy a Turbo - EXPONENTIALLY greater maintenance costs, frequency, etc; EXPONENTIALLY greater chance of dying by the side of the road; EXPONENTIALLY less suitable for daily (~6K/year average mileage anticipated) driving. Assuming requisite PPI's for each, can I poll the group - shy away from the 930 and go "normally aspirated", or throw caution to the four winds and follow my desires for that widebody seductress? Thanks in advance for your thoughtful consideration, Gents!
Old 09-13-2008, 09:38 AM
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Welcome to the meeting. You should give your first name so we can treat you like this is some 12 step program. Because it is, only our version does not try to help you get better just deal with your new addiction.

While it is true the turbo cars require much more maintenance. The parts are very reliable and reasonably affordable. It is the labor that is expensive. IF you can do your own labor you may be able to drive a 930 for about the same money as any other performance car. It's those poor saps like me that are paying for labor that have the exponential bills.

Another reason these cars cost so much is their inherent capability. You wouldn't try to get a NA Porsche or any American muscle car to compete with the fastest cars money can buy today. They just can't do it. They are simply not in the supercar league. However, spend many many dollars on a 930 and it can be as fast and as nimble as any car out there and lighter than most. It's the turbo. The NA Porsche is fantastic and classic but just doesn't have the displacement to compete with 7 liter supercars. But the turbo can easily compete with about anything out there if you spend the cash. Many people have achieved 450 rwhp (some waaay more) on a 2700lbs car for less than the cost of a new Z06.

If you are from a muscle car background then I think the turbo will be the most reasonable transition. It can produce the torque to make you smile as well as any muscle car. The NA Porsche (while a fantastic machine) will not give you that muscle car feel if you are used to torque from large displacement engines.

However the NA Porsche is linear, predictable, reliable, affordable, timeless, and beautiful. But the turbo is what made the racing world change the rules so others could play too.

If you can do your own work ... no question, get the turbo. It won't cost you significantly more than the NA. If you are paying for the labor, it's a much tougher call.
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Old 09-13-2008, 11:04 AM
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Once the addiction actually sets in it starts to sound reasonable to have 2. While one is in the shop drive the other one. Keep one as the more comfortable car and make the other the real power car.
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Kirk
Crashed: Silver 1992 Turbo S2
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Old 09-13-2008, 11:06 AM
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This is the 930 section of Pelican. I'm pretty sure most of the guys here have Turbo's so this may not be the best place to ask.

But since you ask. I've told this story before but I'll tell it again. I've had my 930 23 years. I did all the usual upgrades every couple of years. About 12 years ago I had a buddy who had a 87 911. He had done all the upgrades he could thinking he was putting out about 250hp. At the time I had a garretson IC, K-27 and 1 bar spring. He came over and was showing and telling me all the things he had done to his car. I had mine out that day so I tossed him my keys and told him you lead the way. I'd never driven a 911. I followed him or should I say tried to. After 15 or so miles I flashed the lights and caught up to him. He was shaking his head, and I really thought something was bad wrong with his car. He said it was running as good as it ever had.

Bottom line. There is no comparison. Not even close.
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Old 09-13-2008, 11:38 AM
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You will find many in this section of Pelican migrated from a NA 911 to the 930. Since you are ancient, you only have a few years left on this earth. Enjoy them! Get the Turbo and be done with it.
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Old 09-13-2008, 12:21 PM
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Another 2 cents, I'm older than you by at least 15 years, grew up with muscle cars, built Hot rods with tons of power and moved on to own just about everything that all those fanciful stories of performance cars we read about,Ferrari, Maserati, Aston and through out owned Porsche starting with a 356 then owned many through the 30 years of the aircooled 911 evolution. I now only own 930s, some with up-wards of 700HP and stock ones for those other occasions, and recently am considering putting the furnishing touches on a mild (550 hp ) 935 track clone if common sense does not prevail. If you are used to muscle cars you will need a 930 and will likely, once you own one, either juice it up or get one that has been done. Good luck and enjoy a really great piece of performance design.

Last edited by voitureltd; 09-13-2008 at 02:42 PM..
Old 09-13-2008, 01:25 PM
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Go with the 930. Why? Because they are so friggin cool!

Old 09-13-2008, 01:37 PM
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Yep...you're asking the turbo forum which one to buy. I think you'll find unanimous support here if you decide to go with forced induction. It sounds like you're in a similar place to where I was when looking to buy my 1st p-car. I was looking at NA cars from the mid 80's. When I discovered that the super-minty low mile 3.2 Carerras were fetching similar prices to slightly more used (but still running strong) turbos, it was a no brainer. You can't argue with fat fenders.
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Old 09-13-2008, 02:35 PM
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Thanks for the words, guys! Yeah, I know - I'm over here on the Turbo Forum - what do I EXPECT!? Kinda like trying to give up alcohol, and then renting a room above a bar! But I figured a lot you you guys have/had both, so could give me perhaps a more objective snapshot of what the ongoing ownership of each is. You gave me "snapshots" all right - fat fendered ones!

Well, it's gonna be a fun "ride" looking for the right car; when I find it, the right one will speak to me!
Old 09-13-2008, 02:41 PM
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For the same money, go for the turbo!
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Old 09-13-2008, 03:18 PM
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Just drive a few different versions,stock 911 modded 911 stock 930, modded one. You will not need any advice, they will speak for themselves. When asked why I have more than one 930 turbo the answer is they are all great, just in different ways. Oh I forgot,do still have a 1966 911. Nice to feel the drive when in its early developement.

Last edited by voitureltd; 09-13-2008 at 04:20 PM..
Old 09-13-2008, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRV2FST View Post
Once the addiction actually sets in it starts to sound reasonable to have 2. While one is in the shop drive the other one. Keep one as the more comfortable car and make the other the real power car.

Damn! And I thought I was the only one! Should've known better.....
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:24 PM
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Easy answer based on your background ..... the 930.

However, none of the exponentials you listed are ....well.....exponential. The experience is though

Get the best one you can find and do the full PPI. Costs more on a 930 but well worth it. Good luck.
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:40 PM
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The ONLY place that the turbo is more expensive than the NA car is in the engine bay. Everything else between these cars is similiar or the same. General reliability is identical except for the harder wear on a high horsepower engine and turbo combo.

A fully maxed out NA 911 has 250-300 hp, even with a hopped up 3.6 engine retrofitted to it.

A 930 starts at 300 and can reach 550 or more.

So, you tell me what sounds better, lol.

You will be very limited in your upgrade potential in a small engine without boost.
Old 09-13-2008, 05:35 PM
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You said your one concern was daily drivability. I've been driving mine every day for almost 2 years, in the sun, in the rain, in the snow.....on open roads, in stop-n-go traffic, twisty back roads and drive in burgers. No worries man!
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Old 09-13-2008, 08:17 PM
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"Come into my lair" said the spider to the fly...

Well, I've got a serious Jones for the Turbo car - gonna go drive it on Tuesday. If the whole rest of the car is "high & tight", and the PPI comes back fairly shipshape, I'm in like Errol Flynn! Hey - worst case - I could gank all the Turbo bits off and shelve 'em, right; or is that ludicrousness at its finest?


Thanks for all your help (read: "Enabling") so far Gents - keep those cards and letters coming!
Old 09-13-2008, 09:26 PM
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The best advice I can give is be patient!! Don't buy the first one you look at 'till you've driven several. At the age of these cars, they will have huge differences in feel and performance based on how they have been treated (cared for/modded).

I've done many a PPI on turbos w/ excited, wide eyed, potential buyers standing right there, I can tell you the thrill of owning one of these cars can do strange things to your judgement.

Keep in mind the 87-89 Carrera has the g-50 5 speed gearbox, while only the 1989 & later Turbo is fitted w/ G-50

The turbo 4 speed isn't as balky as the 84-86 Carrera w/ 915 trans so the jump to G-50 isn't as noticable in the turbo as the Carrera, but the extra gear helps w/ drivability. Plus the 4 speed syncros are weak! I still love the "feel" of the 4 speed w/ some big torque behind it though

You would be amazed at how different these cars feel from one to the next, so enjoy the ride!!

oh yea, forget about removing the turbo bits, a stock turbo is only around 7:1/7.5:1 compression...
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Old 09-14-2008, 05:24 AM
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Welcome to the grouppe...ahem I meant group...all seems to have been said, but just another vote for the turbo because of the car's ability to change with you over ownership. You'll never sell it becasue you want more power, you'll just add a new turbo, IC etc.

You can't go wrong with the turbo...ever. Plus I love my cars with hips
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Old 09-14-2008, 06:47 AM
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Are you asking the question of NA versus Turbo? Or specifically the two cars you mentioned? If it's the two cars you've mentioned, that's an easy answer (for me, at least): go with the 930. Barring something ridiculously wrong on the PPI. $32K is way too much to pay for a 3.2 911, unless you're thinking of a garage queen. From a financial standpoint, you'd be silly to put 6K miles annually on that car.

But if you're asking the more common NA versus 930 question, that's going to be very much personal opinion. I don't think the maintenance costs of a 930 are exponentially more expensive. More expensive, yes. But not nearly exponentially so. I don't know what the exact conversion factor would be. Twice as expensive? 50% more expensive?

That's maintenance, I'm referring to. If you get the modification bug, that kind of skews the comparison. There are lots of fairly simple DIY mods that can be done (headers, exhaust, intercooler, turbo, wheels, etc) which will cost a few thousand dollars.

As for daily driver status, they're both 20+ year-old cars. The AC usually sucks. But it'll suck equally badly on both models. So I think that's a toss-up. Reliability will be about the same, I'd guess.

The Carrera is a beautiful, timeless car. But the Turbo is the voluptuous, outgoing, sexy sibling that really makes me go WOW everytime I look at it, let alone drive it.
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Old 09-14-2008, 07:02 AM
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when turbo owners sell their 930 they do it becuase they have $75k invested in a $30k car.

Then a year later they miss it so bad they start over again.
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Old 09-14-2008, 07:03 AM
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