Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Certified User
 
billjam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,981
Garage
K27 7200 is 10mm too long

I am fitting a 7200 in place of the original 3LDZ but it seems that the 7200 is about 10mm longer on the exhaust outlet side.

At first glance, it looks like the original sheetmetal, mounting bracket, exhaust pipe and pipework would probably fit the 7200 if I machined 10mm off the exhaust outlet. I can do this fairly easily but I don't know if its safe to remove that much meat from the turbo housing. Studs would also have 10mm less thread in housing as well.

The other option is to make a new mounting bracket to shift the whole turbo and muffler about 10mm to the right so that the inlet side of the 7200 is still in the same relative location as the original 3LDZ. For me, this is a bit more work because I don't have all the right tools at home.

I am sure someone has dealt with this problem before - which is best way to go?


Old 09-16-2008, 06:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
"I wuz the liquor..."
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,401
On my bracket, I slotted the holes that attach to the engine hanging console...
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 09-16-2008, 07:01 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Smart quod bastardus
 
fredmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 2,208
Garage
Depends on what headers youre using now too. The only way to be sure of the final problem is to mount the K27-7200 on your headers and see where the compressor outlet winds up.
Also check that the intercooler and the up-pipe still fit together properly and mount on the engine. You wanna see where the overall package winds up before making any cuts. I would be hesitant to machine that much off the turbo flanges.....
I wound up removing 10 or 15mm off the compressor outlet on my K27S to make the intercooler and up-pipe bolt to the engine when all said and done. IT WAS TOO LONG AS SHIPPED.
My support bracket was not even close after all this too, so I don't use it currently.
__________________
1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 09-16-2008, 07:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
"I wuz the liquor..."
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,401
good point, Fred! I did the slotting when I originally had B&B headers. I'm now running OBX, and the slots lined up as before, no changes.
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 09-16-2008, 07:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Certified User
 
billjam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,981
Garage
The bottom two of the three holes in the bracket are already slotted but not in the right direction. There's also not enough metal to slot one ofthem any further.



The third hole has a pipe spacer welded behind it so it can't be slotted anyway.
Looking at it again, it might be the lesser of two evils to redesign the bracket, although some time ago I recall reading about machining the 7200 housing but didn't understand the the significance of it at the time.

Old 09-16-2008, 07:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Certified User
 
billjam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,981
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
Depends on what headers youre using now too. The only way to be sure of the final problem is to mount the K27-7200 on your headers and see where the compressor outlet winds up.
Also check that the intercooler and the up-pipe still fit together properly and mount on the engine. You wanna see where the overall package winds up before making any cuts. I would be hesitant to machine that much off the turbo flanges.....
I wound up removing 10 or 15mm off the compressor outlet on my K27S to make the intercooler and up-pipe bolt to the engine when all said and done. IT WAS TOO LONG AS SHIPPED.
My support bracket was not even close after all this too, so I don't use it currently.
Fitting the turbo on the header was going to be my next step. I am using standard headers.

I'm not too worried about the up-pipe to the IC as I will be making up a special pipe anyway to suit the different compressor outlet connection and a B6 IC.

I guess if the muffler is well supported, the bracket could join some of its weight-loss friends in the box in the attick!
Old 09-16-2008, 07:54 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
"I wuz the liquor..."
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,401
I cut that spacer from the bracket. I still use a fastener in that location to hold the hanger to the block, but I only run the lower two bracket bolts...
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 09-16-2008, 07:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
"I wuz the liquor..."
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by billjam View Post
I guess if the muffler is well supported, the bracket could join some of its weight-loss friends in the box in the attick!
Yes, for a while I did this with no ill-effects. The B&B muffler that I was running at the time, had a very secure bracket that I'm sure helped with support.
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 09-16-2008, 07:58 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Certified User
 
billjam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,981
Garage
Thanks for the input sand_man.
I think I'll forget the machining approach and rework or delete the bracket. It doesn't seem as essential as I first thought.
Bedtime.
Old 09-16-2008, 08:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
"I wuz the liquor..."
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,401
So long as you get some support from either a modded factory bracket and/or a muffler bracket, I think you should be fine. But I do think it's important to have something...
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 09-16-2008, 08:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Certified User
 
billjam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,981
Garage
End result

For those following this thread who are interested in the solution ...



I decided to stick with standard bracket by deleting the top mounting point and the spacer behind it and then moving the bottom holes about 15mm to the left. This is pretty much same as sand_man described but I had to weld on an extension for one hole.
The top mount is obviously the one that does most of the work but this arrangement still looks like it will take some of the load off the exhaust system.

Next problem is to figure out where to fit the O2 sensor for an Innovate AFR gauge so I can actually access it without dropping the engine.
I thought the short pipe between turbo and muffler would be good, but access will be really difficult even with a removable panel in the sheetmetal.
Would a location in the pipe coming out of the muffler work OK? It would be easier to get at the sensor and EGT will be lower (= longer sensor life?).

Old 09-17-2008, 04:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
"I wuz the liquor..."
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,401
That short piece of pipe between the turbo body and the actual muffler is where my O2 bung is fitted. I'm also not running a lower valence so access is not a problem. In addition, I only connect my LM1 occasionally for tuning purposes...it's not a permanent install, so most of the time, my bung (CAN I JUST SAY HOW MUCH I HATE THAT WORD) has a plug in it. OMG, did I just say that out loud...
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 09-17-2008, 05:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
"I wuz the liquor..."
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,401
BTW, your rebuild looks nice!!!! Brings back memories!
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 09-17-2008, 05:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
boostfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by sand_man View Post
...so most of the time, my bung (CAN I JUST SAY HOW MUCH I HATE THAT WORD) has a plug in it. OMG, did I just say that out loud...
Well another day got started with my daily dose of sand_man humor.
__________________
Dan
88 930 blk/gry
Old 09-17-2008, 05:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,290
Garage
I don't know if this is any help, but I attached the photo below to illustrate what the factory did when fitting the K27-7200's in the Special Wishes cars. The yellow outline shows where the factory cut the mount and added additional metal for the support.

__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 09-17-2008, 07:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
"I wuz the liquor..."
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,401
Excellent info, Dave!!! And I meant to mention that's how several shops deal with the bracket...cut and re-weld!
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 09-17-2008, 10:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,290
Garage
Billjam,
Maybe you already know this, but have you thought about what you are using for the down pipe between the turbo and the IC? I believe the 3dlz down pipe will not work. If you already mentioned this in your thread, I apologize.
__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 09-17-2008, 10:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Smart quod bastardus
 
fredmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 2,208
Garage
You may be able to use the stock down pipe because IA sells an adaptor that converts the end of the compressor outlet to the o-ring groove you need for this.
Worth looking into as an option.
I had some trouble getting this to fit over the cast surface of the turbo compressor outlet.....so be prepared for a little re-work. I preferred this to cutting up the down pipe and using silicon hose couplings.
Just my opinion.
Good luck
__________________
1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"

Last edited by fredmeister; 09-17-2008 at 12:19 PM..
Old 09-17-2008, 12:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
A930Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Posts: 7,090
The stock up pipe to the intercooler works fine with the aluminum adapter. I want to say I even used it with my HFS.

I've got my O2 sensor located between the turbo and muffler, but I think it gets too hot, as readings have become eratic. A new O2 sensor seemed to work for a short while. Next I'm going to build a copper shield around it.
Old 09-17-2008, 03:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Certified User
 
billjam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,981
Garage
Sensor location

Is there any reason why the sensor can't be fitted after the muffler?
I know it needs to go in the top half of the pipe, but it looks possible to fit on the front side of the pipe pointing up towards the engine.
It could then be accessed from below, and heat would be less of a problem.
Old 09-17-2008, 05:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:37 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.