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I say:

3.4 Full Finned Mahle

Send off your heads, intake, and injector blocks and port to 36mm (Ollie's does outstanding work)

964 cams w/ oil pump drive mod (web cam has been good to me)

Ollie's can rebuild your rockers as well

Maybe fresh valve springs and keepers for insurance, exotic race package not neccesary but not absurd in this case

Twin plugging is debatable, maybe machine the heads anyway, if you go w/ crankfire and use the clewet setup, keep a spare sensor in your glovebox.

The electromotive system w/ MAP sensor would give you the ability to dial in more advance off boost, but you're switching from CD ignition to wasted spark, which is weaker.

Make sure there are no CIS evils that could have led to broken ring, I would guess you were running too much ignition advance and had detonation otherwise

Keep your stock crank and have the center main grooved and crossdrilled. May as well micro polish (Ollie's again)

Update the oil pressure relief valve w/ new springs and shim for high pressure

Stock rods are fine, Rod bolts are debatable, if you run stronger bolts, consider more rod bearing clearance if you will sustain near 7000 rpm on track.

I would use 993 dilavar or aftermarket steel headstuds (just flip a coin in your case, don't loose any sleep over it)

Enjoy extensive tuning w/ suddenly much more important CIS goodies

what else?
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Old 09-22-2008, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsrmike View Post
I say:

Twin plugging is debatable, maybe machine the heads anyway, if you go w/ crankfire and use the clewet setup, keep a spare sensor in your glovebox.

Keep your stock crank and have the center main grooved and crossdrilled. May as well micro polish (Ollie's again)

Update the oil pressure relief valve w/ new springs and shim for high pressure

Stock rods are fine, Rod bolts are debatable, if you run stronger bolts, consider more rod bearing clearance if you will sustain near 7000 rpm on track.

what else?
I would say for the small amount of extra coin, while the heads are off, I would go ahead and twin plug them. Whats the going rate now $400 to $600 bucks or so? If you don't do it, and then decide you want to after you get the motor all back together...it just doesn't make sense.. just do it...

I totallly agree on the micro polish and the center main oil mod...

Stock rods are fine for a street motor with a stock redline. I however, would not trust the stock rodbolts to hold together two piecies of sheet metal, let alone the bottom end of the rod. This happened to me, and when they go, it will cost thousands of dollars worth of money. Why risk it?? It is a known fact that the stock rod bolts are worthless.

DonE, has shimmed his oil pressure relief valve and has gotten very positive results.

I just would hate to see you split the case and not do some of these mods and then wish you have had later down the road.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:54 PM
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Lots of good ideas... I really like the input and will certainly incorporate it into the build. My plan ro 964 was originally the typical 3.4, heads, SC or 964 cams, K27HF, etc. formula others have used, but I am open to alternatives or variations. Whatever I do I won't scrimp and will use good fastners, bolts, etc. Just like when i did the supension I want to go all the wa to my goal and not take 1/2 steps that co4t you when you need to redo things or upgrade your "upgrade".

This is very early in the game. My mechanic and I had a brief phone converstation and will probably go over this many times in the next month or so. He threw the stroker option out there, and knowing him.... there must be a reason. Either he's following another succesful build or he has a line on some of what we need. He does things with the customers best interest in mind, so I am looking forward to learning why he is currentlly leaning in that direction.

The motor will be out in around 30 days time (several motors ahead of me) and by then and we will know what we are facing...and come up with a plan (whatever direction I choose). The one thing I am sure on, is that I am going CIS..what can, I say I'm old-school Don't know what happened, AFRs were good (now) but don't know what they were in the past before the gauge install at the last round of mods or before my purchase a few years ago. At least one ring had been pretty spent and just went at the track. No knocking or missing but the compression is just pumping through now. Car had a prior top-end rebuild but I don't know what was done or how well it was done.
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Last edited by F350Lawman; 09-22-2008 at 09:18 PM..
Old 09-22-2008, 09:12 PM
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Looks good!!
Sounds like I need to do some homework on stock rod bolt failure.
I've personaly never seen it.
Does this include fresh factory bolts from Porsche
Were the failures on re-used bolts?
Stock redline?

I'm only going on my past experience, and will admit some of it was misguided, which is why I'm here to learn.

This is no attempt to argue, I am just curious

And Turbobrat930, if I were in your shoes, I would have some pretty nasty analogies for them myself Sorry about your troubles bro, looks like you made good use of the build, though!
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:41 AM
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Stephen Kaspar of IA described the stock rod bolts as cheese
He suggests that going over 400bhp at the crank is rolling the dice...

That is a good point though about previous tampering of them, it's entirely possible.

I guess for what they cost compared to what they could cost you is a no brainer...
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-23-2008, 01:21 PM
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Question on heads for EFI . Turbo heads are made from a different alloy of aluminum than the 3.2 heads. More able to resist the higher temperatures from turbo charging. Seems like it would be a better idea to port the turbo heads than use 3.2 heads . Am I wrong? I already have a 3.2 intake sitting in the garage for the next big set of mods So I am wondering if i need to keep my eyes open for a good deal on some heads.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken911 View Post
Question on heads for EFI . Turbo heads are made from a different alloy of aluminum than the 3.2 heads. More able to resist the higher temperatures from turbo charging. Seems like it would be a better idea to port the turbo heads than use 3.2 heads . Am I wrong? I already have a 3.2 intake sitting in the garage for the next big set of mods So I am wondering if i need to keep my eyes open for a good deal on some heads.
Yep, the alloy in the 930 heads is better than all of them. Just have the the 930 heads intakes opened up, but definitely not too much or you lose low end driveability. Open up the exhaust side for better scavenging and better flow. Your turbocharger will be happier for it.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:55 PM
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Time and practical experience of the top 930 engine builders has proven that the 79/78 SC heads are 100% up to tough, extended use in a high horsepower turbocharged engine.

The 930 heads cannot be 'opened up' as much as an SC head - port sizes are significantly different.
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:48 PM
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Well, I guess we are going to have agree to disagree.
Porters I have talked to that do turbocharged engines state the 930 heads are a better starting point because of the metallurgy of the heads. Hogging out a port will not necessarily give more horsepower.
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Old 10-12-2008, 08:03 PM
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In theory.
SC heads are so much more appropriate for a modern 930 engine -
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 10-12-2008, 09:30 PM
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I didn't have any trouble opening my 930 heads for the Carrera intake, but the gasket area is somewhat of a compromise.

The 930 ports are 36mm but the opening is only 32mm so you only have to open the top 1-1/2" or so of the port to taper from 40.5mm down to 36mm.

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Old 10-13-2008, 05:29 AM
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I think it looks tricky to match the 3.2 manifold to 930 heads in regards to having a good seal. The large SC or 3.2 heads makes the job much easier even though the 930's are a better material. The only failures of the heads seem to be when they are twin plugged. Smaller spark plugs seem to be the answer to this problem. Apart from that it always seems the pistons melt first...
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 10-13-2008, 12:54 PM
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That is pretty much what I've found too -
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 10-13-2008, 01:05 PM
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Of course, my opinion is only from what I've read and pictures I've seen on these boards.

Making the 3.2 manifold seal on a 930 head without adding extra material to it looks more than a challenge to me!
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 10-13-2008, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUK View Post
I think it looks tricky to match the 3.2 manifold to 930 heads in regards to having a good seal. The large SC or 3.2 heads makes the job much easier even though the 930's are a better material. The only failures of the heads seem to be when they are twin plugged. Smaller spark plugs seem to be the answer to this problem. Apart from that it always seems the pistons melt first...
C'mon guys, you're not sealing a rocket booster here. That's plenty of area to seal the manifold to the heads. You're dealing with -1 Bar of vacuum to 2 Bar of pressure maximum.
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Old 10-13-2008, 01:44 PM
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I had Bill at Xtreme do my head work - on original 930 heads. He massaged them to a very large degree. If you're going to open up the ports a long ways, install larger valves, twin plug, fire ring, properly plug the air injection ports, and go the whole mile matching to Carrera manifolds for EFI, he said there's no performance or cost benefit to using SC or 3.2 heads. So I went with 930 heads for the higher heat resistance. If you're looking to bolt on relatively stock heads with modestly larger ports, then the others may do. But Bill had other reasons for preferring to start with 930 heads, the details of which I can't recall anymore. It had something to do with the radius inside the ports that made the 930 heads more suitable for porting. From what I learned, I'd say this: if you own 930 heads that are rebuildable, and you're planning significant head work, then why not use them? Otherwise you're spending money on expensive cores that you'll still have to work on. If you have some usable SC or 3.2 heads around and want to use them essentially as is, then they may work for your application. But unless you plan to use the SC or 3.2 heads as is, you might as well start with the 930 heads if you have them. You get the benefit of the RR350 alloy with 930 heads, plus, why pay for expensive cores that you don't own?

By the way, there's no problem with sealing Carrera manifolds to 930 heads that have been ported properly. And these intake ports were opened (as was the manifold) to about 42 mm. The first photo shows that there was plenty of meat left. I've had no sealing issues whatsoever. The other shot just shows some exhaust porting.





Old 10-13-2008, 03:12 PM
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Hello,
For 930 heads to 3.2 Manifolds, are you guys making your own gaskets?
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Old 10-14-2008, 05:58 AM
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I believe you just use the 3.2 intake gasket.


Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
Hello,
For 930 heads to 3.2 Manifolds, are you guys making your own gaskets?
Old 10-14-2008, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
Hello,
For 930 heads to 3.2 Manifolds, are you guys making your own gaskets?

I used the stock 3.2L intake gaskets, phenolic spacers, studs and barrel nuts...all available from Porsche or as i purchased them from EBS.... they were not that expensive...
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 10-14-2008, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrat930 View Post
I used the stock 3.2L intake gaskets, phenolic spacers, studs and barrel nuts...all available from Porsche or as i purchased them from EBS.... they were not that expensive...
I must have had some strange gaskets when I did this then. The 930 Gaskets wouldn't work and the other gaskets I had were "strange". I ended up cutting all the gaskets by hand.

Does anyone have a Pic of the 3.2 gaskets?
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 10-14-2008, 11:44 AM
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