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A fellow Pelacanite
 
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Thanks Dave, I had no idea I could buy a meter to test capacitors but I see them on ebay now.

Phil, I hope the new CDI does the trick.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

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Old 10-21-2008, 03:25 PM
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Ok finally have an update. While I waited for parts to arrive I took the time to replace my worn out turbo with a new one.

Tried throwing money at the problem, still didn't fix it... new permatune coil, new permatune CD, new cap, new rotor. Still won't start.

I am getting spark at the plugs. I have a new front pump, but have not installed it since A) I can smell fuel when i crank it B) with the green safety switch disconnected the pump is very audible.

I tried disconnecting the tach, still no start.

I have not checked the timing since the distributor has not moved and when the car died, it was abrupt.

I am having some trouble understanding #8-10 from "boost fix" post on 10-19
Thanks,
Old 11-01-2008, 08:55 AM
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Two more thoughts;
You could check your system pressure - you need CIS gauge hooked in between WUR outlet to fuel head. Pull plug on airplate, key on. Then switch tap over cutting fuel exit to fuel head and read pressure. If you have a dodgy pump, you may have low pressure - too low to run.
Mine died - 2-3 times other day - just doing short runs. When I pulled the airplate plug, no pump noise. Was a bad contact in the relay in CDI box.
Alan
Old 11-02-2008, 03:02 PM
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Vacuum advance seems to be a liiiittle damaged. Could this have been the problem?
Old 11-02-2008, 06:02 PM
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Ha - bit like mine was.
You better pull the dizzy down. My bet is the advance collar is frozen on shaft too.
Mine was frozen, but the car still started/ran. Just low power below boost - then the mechanical advance kicked in and away it went.
I doubt this would cause non- start. But you have found something useful anyway. The car will thank you for it.
Alan
Old 11-02-2008, 07:07 PM
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Yeah I'm def gonna have to rebuild it since there are rusty metal bits hanging on all the magnets too. I figure this would only have made it run rough so the culprit remains to be found...
Old 11-02-2008, 07:29 PM
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At the point the car wont start, do you know if you are getting spark at the plugs?
If you are, then I would look at fuel - system pressure first.
Alan
Old 11-02-2008, 10:10 PM
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Phil,
I can't remember if you mentioned this or not, but did you test the over-boost switch? This switch controls the fuel pumps in the case of an over boost condition.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:43 AM
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I had a very similar problem and it was the infamous yellow relay.
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:30 AM
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Not sure if you have the same boost pressure sensor, but if you pull the connector off the sensor and ground it, does it run? I had a faulty sensor at Roebling last weekend and ended up just tying the sensor wire to ground and car ran fine. $54 later, I have a new sensor sitting on the workbench but haven't spent the 15 minutes required to pull the IC and install it yet. At least that would let you rule out the pressure sensor. It WILL shut down the fuel pumps when it fails and not allow the car to run.
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:48 AM
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Yes, another intermittent dying my car had, was the overboost sensor.
No fuel pressure when press airplate. (key on).
If you wiggled the terminal on the sensor, it would go. The terminal was loose inside. Often, it you tested it, it was OK. But then the car would stop. No fuel pressure. Cuts the pumps off.
Alan
Old 11-03-2008, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK-I View Post
Phil,
I can't remember if you mentioned this or not, but did you test the over-boost switch? This switch controls the fuel pumps in the case of an over boost condition.
Do you mean disconnect the green plug going into the CIS distributor? If thats what you mean then yes, and i could definitely hear the front pump turn on as soon as i disconnected it.

As for yellow relay (overboost?) i removed the cover, everything look good. I resoldered the main circuits as well as pry the fingers of the contacts apart to ensure continuity.

I pulled one plug to check for spark and i was getting spark, but still no start. I have nearly all of the bits removed from the top of the engine so that i can change all the plugs and wires, and adjust the valves while i'm in there.

I don't have a fuel pressure gauge so i have not checked pressure yet. I may eventually get one but the intermittent nature of the problem and the pungent fuel odor leads me to believe something else is up.
Old 11-03-2008, 09:32 AM
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The overboost sensor is on the back of the BOV. The fuel pumps would run with the engine not running. But, once you make contact the boost switch would shut them down. All you have to do is ground the wire going to the boost switch. I will try to snap a pic for you...
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:55 AM
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As promised...




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Old 11-03-2008, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSPTurtle View Post
As promised...

+1
It's a brown wire that has a spade connector going to the switch pictured. Temporarily connect the brown wire to chassis ground. The switch is normally closed until the boost reaches about 1.2-1.3 bar, then it opens, breaking the ground circuit to the overboost relay shutting the fuel pumps off. It's beginning to sound like this may be the problem.
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 11-03-2008, 11:57 AM
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Really appreciate the help guys. Once I get the everything back together I'll give it a try and let everyone know how it goes. Thanks!
Old 11-03-2008, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Gilsdorf View Post
I am having some trouble understanding #8-10 from "boost fix" post on 10-19
Thanks,
The only one I understand is #8.

I'm not sure of the benefit of this test though. It would seem you have to take a voltage reading at the green plug which goes to the metering unit after unplugging it and turning on the ignition.

I would say that as long as you have battery power at each pump, the WUR & the electric idle valve when the ignition is on and that green plug disconnected then all is OK.

I don't think anyone here would have recommended you went with Permatune. MSD is a cheaper option than the stock part.

I wonder if all that rust in the dizzy is the problem.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg

Last edited by NathanUK; 11-23-2008 at 03:36 PM..
Old 11-09-2008, 01:50 AM
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Ok I finally got around to installing the rebuilt dizzy, new wires, and new plugs. I left the original BOSCH CDI and Coil on for a test. Engine does not start or fire any cylinders, but one weird thing is the tach reads 4500rpm when cranking.

With the Permatune CDI I finally got it to fire! but it still won't start. Tach does not move from baseline. I crank it, a few cylinders fire, and then nothing.

Other pertinent info:
-I am getting spark at all cylinders
-I tested the overboost sensor by grounding out the brown wire which did not change anything.
-With the green metering safety switch disconnected all the pumps come on but it does not change anything.
Old 02-08-2009, 11:22 AM
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OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
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Turn the dizzy back and forth as you try to start it. It might be off just a little.

Also, since you pulled the dizzy out, I'd look to see if you have installed it improperly. It might be off a few teeth or 180*.
Old 02-08-2009, 04:32 PM
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Yes, you have spark, so you need now to know it is timed right. Take engine to Z1 mark for #1 and check rotor lines up on #1 lead. I think there is a mark on body of Dizzy for this - but need to lift cap (PITA I know). If all that checks out, might be time to look at fuel side. Won't need to be too far retarded to have your symptoms. (One tooth at a guess).
Alan
Old 02-08-2009, 07:29 PM
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