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Macht Schnell
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooney265 View Post
Les - the rings are new and cylinders are old. Randy said they have a special plating that doesn't wear. the previous rings were in perfect shape before removal, though...

Brought it back to Randy this morning. Before i did, though, I started the engine and was able to "clear" one of the cylinders [with a .22-caliber pop] about 15-sec after starting. It ran super-smooth after that.

While at the shop, they found that a fuel pump relay was stuck and the fuel pumps were running when I turned the key on [before starting]. Assuming that one of the injectors had a slight drip, it may have been loading up the cylinder before starting. Now, when I turn the key to the "on" posn, I don't hear those fuel pumps running up...

I ran it around today [the weather here is high pressure and cool]. It ran awesome! I took you guys advice and did a lot of accel/decel to seat the rings properly.

Looking forward to putting some miles on it this weekend [weather permitting].

Thanks
Hi,
The Nikasil does not wear much for sure. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing Randy did wrong here. That is a very common way to do things. The problem is that Nikasil Re-ring jobs are at "some" risk for not having the new rings seat. Therefore a concerted effort to get the rings seated would be my immediate priority. The most extreme technique I've seen done is to put them back together dry with no oil to have them scrub in immediately. Mine have all re-seated when I did them, but I really went after them to seat them quick.
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 10-28-2008, 02:30 PM
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He re-ringed old pistons ?????????
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Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 10-29-2008, 11:27 AM
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Craig,

He re-ringed the original pistons [w. 38k on them]. So, I've got original pistons and sleeves with new rings. Is that bad?
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Old 10-29-2008, 02:13 PM
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Based on a couple of rebuilds and hands-on stuff - definitely not something I would do.

I would bet the smoke has a lot to do with this, perhaps one bit of internet advice that makes sense but is probably not 100% correct would be:
"smoke will go away when the rings are seated"

But IMO re-ringing old pistons is a mistake.
I'll start a new thread on this to see -
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 10-29-2008, 02:40 PM
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I guess it's a wait and see what happens scenerio now.

Another concern I've read is the new rings wallering in the piston ring grooves, eventually leading to ring and piston damage. Anyone else know of this?
Old 10-29-2008, 03:59 PM
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There is a certain engine rebuilder in a State called Golden who is known for - get this - smashing the piston ring lands and reusing the pistons with new rings.

Yep, compressing the aluminum pistons to squish the lands in order to fit new rings.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 10-29-2008, 04:08 PM
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Macht Schnell
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
There is a certain engine rebuilder in a State called Golden who is known for - get this - smashing the piston ring lands and reusing the pistons with new rings.

Yep, compressing the aluminum pistons to squish the lands in order to fit new rings.
That's called re-indexing the piston's. I learned that from a Kewl Mechanic in Turkey who had a Penchant for welding Spark plugs in when they were the wrong size!
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 10-29-2008, 04:12 PM
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I am a bit concerned for the owenr who posted this topic -
Trying to help, let's see what solid stuff we can come up with....

Although "the horse has already left that barn" -
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 10-29-2008, 04:28 PM
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Between those two stories, I hope I've heard it all.

Yeah, it's gotten off topic to the the OP questions. Sorry.

Last edited by A930Rocket; 10-29-2008 at 04:31 PM..
Old 10-29-2008, 04:29 PM
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My 2 cents

My 930 was rebuilt using used pistons and cylinders, all within tolerance. It has about 800 miles on the motor, it puffs a little smoke on start up occasionally. I was told this is normal, because as the car sits with the engine off, the oil in the cylinders drains to the bottom of the cylinder (horizontal). This excess oil burns off and thats the smoke you see. I had the engine compression tested and leak down tested. All 6 at or above spec and 0% leak down. For what its worth, my 99 Boxster also does this...

Anyway the 930 runs great...and it's blast to drive
Old 10-29-2008, 06:10 PM
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Macht Schnell
 
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The first Motor I did, I re-ringed. The rings seated fine. It's something I would as I said above, to go after seating the rings. I broke it in with the crapiest 30 weight I could find. I have some freiends who redo Nikasils with no oil when they fit the new rings, so that they seat immediately on startup. The Nikasil at 80K Miles still showed the original cross hatches and everyone of my compression rings had been broken for god knows how long. Next rebuild was New P&C's. He'll most likely be fine on this.
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 10-29-2008, 06:15 PM
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Very true, zoomie.

Yet used P&Cs in and of itself is not a bad thing, but adding new rings on used pistons and cylinders can be a problem - BUT I would guess that he would be ok in this situation -

I'd just hate for the poor guy to have more than a slim chance his motor would have to be opened up again - this operation is muy spendy.
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 10-29-2008, 06:22 PM
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An Update from the New Guy....

I've had the car back for 1-week, now... I've put about 200 miles on it, and it's been running great! The smoking appears to be subsiding. It still smokes at startup, but appears to be a little less... I think the idle could be set a little lower [right now: 1,100 rpm]. My AFR's are running between 13-14 with normal driving. I have the Andial fuel mixture selector and notice my AFR's drop to the 10's when under boost... I've been keeping the max boost at .8 bar [I have the 934 adjustable boost knob mounted between the seats].

I spoke with Randy Greff, my mechanic about the rings/cylinders issue and I agree with his response:

Randy wrote: First of all we are talking about a low mile engine that had broken head studs. We always check the cylinders for being round and not excessive wear. Yours are fine. The cylinders are a nickel silicon alloy. In layman's terms the cylinders are nickel plated. These cylinders are tough. There is wear tolerances that we check after cleaning to insure they are o.k. and nothing strange is happening. The new rings will break in in about a 1,000 miles. And the smoke will calm down. Trust me, we have built over a hundred 911 and turbo engines. On another note, The piston and cylinders are $4,000. We could have replaced them, we could have done the bottom end. This would have been alot more money. When do you stop. I believe we had your best interest and money in mind when performing all the work we did. I know you are excited about your new toy, and if you have any questions I will be happy to answer them.
Thanks, Randy


I do have one "new owner" concern, as it pertains to the cockpit heating system: With all the switches [between the seat lever "down"; control knob to "0"; all levers to max "left" position] in off position, I still get some hot air blowing out of my foot vents. I find I have to move the middle lever to far right "defrost" to keep my toes from melting!

Is this normal?????? Any help would be much appreciated...
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Old 11-02-2008, 04:13 AM
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Macht Schnell
 
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Hi Shannon,
The heater control box between the seats on the floor, has a motor in it connected to a rod that goes back to two flapper boxes mounted to the Exhaust system heat exchangers under the car. The rod pulls cables connected to the flappers that open and close the flapper feeds into the car/cabin heat system.

On the passenger side of the control box is a door that Pops off. You can look in there and watch the rod move as you change the numbers on the controller.

1) Make sure the rod moves to and fro as you change the numbers. This box is EXPENSIVE TO REPLACE by the way.
2) Make sure the flappers close all the way on the Heat Exchangers under the car.
3) I believe there are springs for return on the flappers, make sure they are still there and helping close the flapper boxes.

You should not have heat in the car with everything off up front. I bought hat contril box before and paid $1000 for it. If I do it again, I will convert it to mechanical. Hope this helps.
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 11-02-2008, 05:24 AM
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If I'm not mistaken, the springs on the heater control boxes are to keep them open. Either way, the auto heat is a pain. I've converted mine to manual.
Old 11-02-2008, 10:03 AM
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Macht Schnell
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A930Rocket View Post
If I'm not mistaken, the springs on the heater control boxes are to keep them open. Either way, the auto heat is a pain. I've converted mine to manual.
Open, closed, yeah one of those! What parts did you buy to change it out?
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 11-02-2008, 11:14 AM
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Les,

I do hear the motor running [between the seats], but only when the dial is turned off of "0"

It sounds like that motor is operating correctly. I understand there is a blower motor located in the rear of the car. Where can I find this motor?

Also, what's the best way to ensure the flappers are closing all the way? Jack up car and visually inspect?

Thanks!
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Old 11-02-2008, 04:36 PM
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Visual inspection of the heat flaps is the way to go IMHO. If the flaps are working properly with the heat controller servo motor then you might also want to check the air temp sensor. This is what was causing my heat problem of too much heat on the low settings. Note the round disc between the steering column housing and the ventilation controls in the pic below. This is the air intake for a small fan that draws cabin air across a thermister. I took mine out to test its function and discovered that the thermister was so covered in dust from years of use that it was not able to read the air temp properly. All I did was clean it with alcohol and my heat system was working!
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Last edited by boostfix; 11-02-2008 at 09:34 PM..
Old 11-02-2008, 09:19 PM
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and the pic that I forgot to upload....

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Old 11-02-2008, 09:32 PM
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Macht Schnell
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfix View Post
Visual inspection of the heat flaps is the way to go IMHO. If the flaps are working properly with the heat controller servo motor then you might also want to check the air temp sensor. This is what was causing my heat problem of too much heat on the low settings. Note the round disc between the steering column housing and the ventilation controls in the pic below. This is the air intake for a small fan that draws cabin air across a thermister. I took mine out to test its function and discovered that the thermister was so covered in dust from years of use that it was not able to read the air temp properly. All I did was clean it with alcohol and my heat system was working!
Interesting. I have a sensor up by the rearview mirror that sticks out like a nipple.
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 11-03-2008, 05:16 AM
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